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JerkassRealization

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WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#1: Sep 28th 2024 at 7:25:10 PM

So... Jerkass Realization seems broad but is actually pretty specific. The description is centered on a character giving a lecture only to realize they're being a jerk, which at best still restricts it to realizations that they were saying mean things to someone. The examples, laconic, and playing with/ all focus on a broader idea, which includes any level of jerkassery.

Now, obviously we go by what the description says; I suppose what I'm really wondering is, is this narrow scope something we should actually be abiding by? Or do we need to expand it? (As always, merely changing the description without TRS is an invalid move since it'd expand the trope incorrectly)

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WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#3: Sep 28th 2024 at 10:40:28 PM

Description is more or less identical, so obviously it's always been this narrow.

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themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
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#4: Sep 29th 2024 at 4:18:19 PM

[up] In that case, TRS is probably necessary here.

(Probably will be a quick thread — Accidental Truth had a very similar issue to this one and that thread was quite fast.)

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Sep 29th 2024 at 7:18:24 AM

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WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#5: Sep 29th 2024 at 4:51:06 PM

Would need a check of course. Maybe tomorrow after work

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MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#6: Sep 29th 2024 at 10:48:57 PM

The original sponsor saw fit to include examples that didn't involve lectures, so this may be a case where someone describes a trope as narrower than it actually needed to be and doesn't realize they're accepting examples that don't fit the description, even though there are definitely cases on the original YKTTW where people struggle with whether something fits.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#7: Sep 30th 2024 at 2:27:40 PM

Probably, that sort of thing gets flagged nowadays but I'm sure it was easier to fudge it back then under the rule of "flexibility". I'll start a check soon.

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EmeraldSource Since: Jan, 2021
#8: Sep 30th 2024 at 2:46:20 PM

Yeah, looks like a flaw in the Example As Thesis that is slightly disconnected from the core concept. Most tropes end up broader in practice anyway. It's a similar reason I try to comb out actual examples in the description (excepting trope namers) because it's easy to think "It's ubiquitous in Star Trek" as self-explanatory.

Comics are just words and pictures. You can do anything with words and pictures.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#9: Sep 30th 2024 at 2:47:45 PM

Issue is, when it comes to actually defining a trope, we fall back on the description, since obviously examples can simply be misuse. So if there's a dissonance, the examples are in the wrong (lest the description got changed on us).

I won't even call it an Example As Thesis because it really isn't? Like every paragraph revolves around lecturing/speeches. At a certain point you just have to think that it's the definition of the trope, not just a narrow thesis.

Edited by WarJay77 on Sep 30th 2024 at 5:49:31 AM

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WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
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#11: Oct 3rd 2024 at 11:09:56 AM

[up] Judging by the completed wick check, I think TRS is absolutely the right way to go here.

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WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#12: Oct 3rd 2024 at 11:11:04 AM

Yeah, I threw it on the queue last night. OP is in my sandbox like usual. Luckily this doesn't seem to be a difficult one.

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themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
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#13: Oct 3rd 2024 at 11:15:25 AM

[up] Got it. I guess we'll continue this discussion when the thread goes live.

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