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The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom

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diddyknux (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#301: Nov 14th 2024 at 10:08:27 AM

[up][up][up] You can use Pandora from the Borderlands games as another example if you do do one.

Editing page top context: Commenting on idea for a "world that's a prison" trope.

Edited by diddyknux on Nov 14th 2024 at 10:09:24 AM

TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#302: Nov 14th 2024 at 10:12:44 AM

[up] And Malladus from Spirit Tracks.

Once Upon A Time.
ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#303: Nov 14th 2024 at 5:29:44 PM

It's funny how this wiki describes this game's villain and the Goddesses as Order Versus Chaos and puts the Goddesses in as order.

It really seems the other way around. Null wants perfect and complete stillness, while the Godesses' creation Hyrule is teeming with many wacky life forms, epic conflict and general shenanigans.

You are not alone.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#304: Nov 14th 2024 at 5:41:10 PM

Oh my Goddess, Tv Tropes being inaccurate and trying to fit in a trope that doesn't fit? What MADNESS IS THIS?!

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
The-Azure-Star-Of-Orion Long time lurker from a deep dark hole Since: Mar, 2022 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Long time lurker
#305: Nov 14th 2024 at 6:01:09 PM

[up][up]even then the Order vs. Chaos is being misused here as Null runs on Blue-and-Orange Morality.

After 10 year plus years I have the confidence to be here. My one and only Fate servent.
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#306: Nov 14th 2024 at 6:01:42 PM

[up][up][up] I think Creation vs Destruction is a far better term. Null wants to destroy everything that isn't Null while the Goddesses want something new to be created.

Edited by Shadao on Nov 14th 2024 at 6:01:52 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#307: Nov 14th 2024 at 6:02:19 PM

From his POV, the Goddesses are Imperialists and jerks who created their Empire on his land, and locked him away for merely existing and feeding to survive.

Then dehumanize him as a mindless beast to rub salt in the wound.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Anura from England Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#308: Nov 15th 2024 at 2:48:57 PM

[up] It doesn't say anywhere that Null needed to eat anything to survive. It just doesn't like things existing.

Also, the Creation/Destruction Juxtaposition trope was recently added to the wiki.

And, did anyone else realize that the renaming of the Triforce to "Prime Energy" creates a contrast between Null and Prime, literally zero and one?

Edited by Anura on Nov 15th 2024 at 10:53:57 AM

A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they will never sit in.
TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#309: Nov 15th 2024 at 3:05:41 PM

[up] I more find the name funny because every cutscene with people talking about the Triforce has them speak about "Prime Energy" (which shares a name with the energy drink co-owned by Logan Paul) with absolute reverence.

Once Upon A Time.
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#310: Nov 15th 2024 at 3:18:52 PM

That explains the Downfall timeline, people in Hyrule were worshiping bad energy drinkstongue

TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#311: Nov 15th 2024 at 3:20:16 PM

I had Prime a single time before finding out it was owned by Logan Paul. I very much regret that decision.

Once Upon A Time.
ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#312: Nov 15th 2024 at 3:56:42 PM

TBH i like that they disguise the name a bit. I remember everyone talking about the "Golden Power" in ALTTP and then one random NPC ypu can talk to mentions it and then is like "Or the other name it is called... Triforce." And it BLEW MY MIND as a kid.

You are not alone.
lycropath Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#313: Nov 15th 2024 at 6:51:16 PM

It's also never called the Triforce in Twilight Princess, just as "the power of the Gods".

rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#314: Nov 17th 2024 at 11:38:29 PM

Nintendo explains why Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom avoids using the word 'Triforce'

Quoting the relevant bit of the Famitsu interview mentioned below:

It's the same with the point about Link not being able to speak that I touched upon earlier. For a long time now the Triforce, and the relationship between Zelda, Link, and Ganon forms a base, without which nothing could form. So we discussed the fact that the story focused on acquiring the Triforce. However, if we went ahead and simply went with "the story of the Triforce", since the image we have created up until now of what the Triforce is so strong, one would automatically imagine the story must have the same structure and flow.
So instead, we purposefully made the setting and time ambiguous. It wasn't a situation where the king, royal family, and everyone already knew about the Triforce, and in fact even the word had been forgotten. Instead it was a setting where all that remains is a vague legend of something called the "Prime Energy" that sleeps in the world, which allowed us to greatly expand the adventure. So, we avoided the word "Triforce" in the story. But then I suppose it does later appear big and clear to anyone that it clearly is the Triforce (laughs). But at that point, when you see it hopefully you think "I knew it!"

Basically, metawise they didn't want players thinking Echoes of Wisdom would follow the same story beats as other Zelda stories just because the Triforce is there, and storyline-wise it's because at this point the Triforce has passed so far into legend that even its name has been long forgotten.

Edited by rmctagg09 on Nov 18th 2024 at 3:09:57 PM

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
32ndfreeze Since: Mar, 2012
#315: Nov 18th 2024 at 1:58:19 AM

I finished the game today and I really like that reasoning for calling it the Prime Energy.

That's basically how I felt when playing though the ending.

The final dungeon also reminded me a lot of the Anju & Kafei sidequest from Majora's Mask. Back when I first played that as a teenager I remember thinking how cool it would have been if Zelda was the other controllable character.

I got all the Heart Pieces & all 50 Sidequests done using a guide but I'm unsure if I'll go back and fill out the rest of the remaining outfits/echoes now that I've beaten the final boss.

I did really like Echoes a lot! It was great to play a new 2D Zelda again and the twist of the formula was excellent to play.

Fighting with Echoes was really fun! I almost wish they took Swordfighter form away from you more often because it does get to be a bit of a crutch sometimes ahaha.

Not at first but as I kept going though the game I ended up relying on it more for hitting bosses during their exposed weak points. As well as for taking out pesky enemies rather than cycling though Echoes looking for a counter if my standard line up wasn't working.

I do think that the puzzles also unfortunately become a little easy past the half way point. Particularly when you get the water block that is super overpowered for most platforming.

I hope that we eventually get a 3D playable Zelda now that they've proven Zelda as the protagonist will sell.

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#316: Nov 18th 2024 at 9:06:04 AM

I don't mind something like the Triforce having more than one name. In fact, the way the phrase Prime Energy is used in the game, I came to the conclusion that the Triforce was a "container" for the Prime Energy.

Edited by WillKeaton on Nov 18th 2024 at 11:50:43 AM

diddyknux (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#317: Nov 18th 2024 at 10:41:10 AM

<Crumples up Echoes theories and throws them in the trash>

KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#318: Nov 18th 2024 at 3:06:33 PM

I just want to say that "Prime Energy" in the Japanese version is "ooinaru chikara" which is literally just "great power". It's a really generic term that I don't think is meant to be lore important outside implying that people forgot the name "Triforce".

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#319: Nov 18th 2024 at 3:19:14 PM

Not even Golden Power...they forgot its color!

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Anura from England Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#320: Nov 19th 2024 at 4:17:18 PM

[up][up][up][up] My theory was that this was early in the timeline, like before Demise early, that the Tris were the Prime Energy holding the world together, and that the game would end with all of the Tris fusing to create the Triforce, consolidating the Prime Energy into a single all-powerful artifact (word of which would spread far and wide and start drawing the attention of the demons...). After finishing it, I'm now pretty sure it's on the other end of the timeline, specifially in the Downfall timeline a very long time after Zelda 2.

[up] I think that ALttP translated "Sacred" as "Golden" because of religious cencorship back in the day.

Edited by Anura on Nov 19th 2024 at 12:19:09 PM

A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they will never sit in.
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