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One Person, One Power description problem

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nightlightie Since: Apr, 2020
#1: Sep 4th 2024 at 11:51:48 AM

As suggested by War Jay 77, I am adding this thread to discuss how the definition of One Person, One Power was changed so much that it resembles Magic by Any Other Name with little distinction, which caused other problems with the examples. You can read more about the reasoning from his post here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13164954120A97000100&page=225#comment-5602. Later in the thread, I suggested it be turned back to the description made by StarSword, which was discussed here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13164954120A97000100&page=225#comment-5605. So, does the trope description need to be changed along with some examples that need to be reviewed, or am I missing something that shows it needs to stay in its current state?

Edited by nightlightie on Sep 4th 2024 at 11:53:24 AM

StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#2: Sep 4th 2024 at 12:51:08 PM

Paging ~War Jay 77 since they posted when this was brought up in the other thread.

For the record, my edit to that page was so long ago I don't even remember this page, and all I actually did was crosswick a later-created Missing Supertrope, namely One Super, One Power Set.

I'm not sure I agree with the complaint that it now resembles Magic by Any Other Name; could you explain that to me?

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#3: Sep 4th 2024 at 12:55:28 PM

I'll note that Tropers/{{4tell0life4}}, who made the edit that radically changed the trope, has since been bounced for ban evasion.

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#4: Sep 4th 2024 at 12:59:19 PM

All I really know is that if you follow 4tell's history on the page you can see they were editing it back and forth, making minor changes. But that change did include saying "the magic may have a name", however it seems to be more trying to say that each power may have a unique name rather than link it to Magic by Any Other Name. 4tell did still alter stuff and potentially edit warred so we should still examine how much was altered, though.

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StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#5: Sep 4th 2024 at 1:31:04 PM

[up][up]Yeah, I figured something like that had happened since y'all were talking about him in past tense. tongue

So, just so we don't have to keep flipping back and forth, this is the 'before' picture:

A fairly common subtype of settings with a Mass Super-Empowering Event in the backstory. Each superpowered person gets one power. Some powers are more versatile than others, of course. The only exceptions are people whose one superpower is the power to copy or steal powers. Nobody gets Combo Platter Powers as a default.

Subtrope of One Super, One Power Set, but more restrictive.

And this is the 'after' picture:

A setting where each of multiple characters has one, unique power. Any magic they exhibit will be a variation of their one power. The power may occasionally have a name to refer to it (compare Differently Powered Individuals). May be tied to a Mass Super-Empowering Event in the backstory, or connected to a Meta Origin.

Some powers might be more versatile than others, of course. These may include the power to copy or steal other powers, as long as that is the person's only designated power. Nobody gets Combo Platter Powers by default (which would mean that those who do are unnatural, and usually artificial, cases).

Stories using this trope typically portray a person having one power as being the natural way magic develops in that world.

See also Everyone Has a Special Move, Signature Move, and Single-Power Superheroes. Compare One Super, One Power Set.

I gotta admit, the old description is pretty bare-bones and I'm not convinced that the core of the trope is actually dependent on the Mass Super-Empowering Event. It's basically describing a magic system like My Hero Academia or One Piece wherein each super has one superpower (Quirk or Devil Fruit respectively) and can't get another: they can only refine the way they use the one they've got.

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nightlightie Since: Apr, 2020
#6: Sep 4th 2024 at 2:20:58 PM

Sorry, I misread StarSword's edit here, and I should have looked at earlier edits. The description should have been credited to Razor Smile. My bad; it was the latest example of the description before it was changed! The reason why there is a problem is that the description made by RazorSmile talks about the trope being about people having one power each, but when 4tell0life4 changed it, the trope seemed to go toward Magic by Any Other Name while also describing how people have one power, which also makes them unique which doesn't add much to the description, especially when you consider 4tell not giving a reason. It also shares examples with MBAON that don't fit under having one power, like with RWBY, Jojo's, and Hunter × Hunter, where they would be Combo Platter Powers rather than characters having one. I wanted to ensure that the examples fit the trope, where mistakes might have been made due to the description stating the powers being named, like with Differently Powered Individuals, but for powers, which MBAON is compared to with DPI and vice versa unless I've missed something.

Edited by nightlightie on Sep 4th 2024 at 2:27:04 AM

Khoshekh6 Since: May, 2022
#7: Sep 4th 2024 at 3:16:47 PM

If we're bringing up examples, while HXH definitely doesn't count, I would say jojo and rwby are more debatable

With jojo, while a single stand may be able to do multiple things, it's a hard rule that each person only gets one unique stand

With rwby, aura itself just makes you generically superhuman and everyone has it, so you don't really notice it. Semblances are the actual powers of the setting, they are one per person

nightlightie Since: Apr, 2020
#8: Sep 4th 2024 at 3:42:24 PM

[up]That makes sense based on how debatable they are. RWBY and Jojo's still show Combo Platter Powers, at least to me, but I'll try and share what I've observed, though I don't mind being wrong:

  • In Jojo's, each user has one Stand, but what if the Stand shows different abilities, like Star Platinum, which has superhuman strength, speed, precision, and stopping time?
  • In RWBY, everyone has an Aura, which gives a person Magic Enhancement. Once they used their Aura enough, they awakened their Semblance. They are connected, but Aura can help people by giving them Magic Enhancement. At the same time, Semblance is a power based on the user's personality. Does it mean they only have one power due to Aura, or do they have Combo Platter Powers if they have both where they are distinct enough to give a user a variety of abilities for combat and more?

Edited by nightlightie on Sep 4th 2024 at 3:44:57 AM

Malady (X-Troper)
#9: Sep 4th 2024 at 8:25:10 PM

Jojo seems like we could call it a single Swiss-Army Superpower and be done? "As long as the ultimate cause is singular"?

Edited by Malady on Sep 4th 2024 at 8:25:32 AM

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
nightlightie Since: Apr, 2020
#10: Sep 4th 2024 at 8:32:02 PM

[up] Alright, that's fair. I want to make sure you are talking about the RWBY example, too, not just Jojo? Also, I think there are still other examples that might not fit, like from The Gamer, Infinite Dendrogram, and My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic.

Edited by nightlightie on Sep 4th 2024 at 8:37:56 AM

Malady (X-Troper)
#11: Sep 4th 2024 at 11:09:29 PM

RWBY is a bit Training the Gift of Magic-y to me. Everyone has the basic gift which is somewhat useful, but only with personal development does it grow into a Personality Power?

This might get weird how in some LitRPG-s, everyone has "The System" which is literally a "power" that grants skills that fit the user.

We might need to carve out an exception for works where there's a widespread "foundation" power like Aura, System, Spirit Cultivation Genre, etc.

....

The Gamer has the power be presumed to be given by an entity... There might be a trope on how Enigmatic Empowering Entity-es only give one power to people if it gives multiple people powers.

Edited by Malady on Sep 4th 2024 at 11:15:31 AM

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
nightlightie Since: Apr, 2020
#12: Sep 5th 2024 at 8:21:12 AM

[up]That makes sense, but it might be hard to wrap my head around it since RWBY{{'}}s Aura keeps reminding me of Hunter X Hunter{{'}}s Nen, but that's just me.

Now, then, for The Gamer, it is more complicated. Gaia, as in the Earth itself, can bestow a power that people in the Abyss dubbed Natural Abilities. However, people in the Abyss can gain Functional Magic and Supernatural Martial Arts, which they call Acquired Abilities. Acquired Abilities are achieved through knowledge and training, which anyone can do. This means that even people with Natural Abilities can gain Acquired Abilities, and there is no limit besides the required training to master them. The titular character, The Gamer, can gain more Acquired Abilities relatively quickly without any training due to his Natural Ability, which he can achieve through certain books like Skill Books in RPGs.

Edited by nightlightie on Sep 5th 2024 at 8:24:10 AM

StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#13: Sep 5th 2024 at 9:56:20 AM

I think we're getting a little off-track: I only brought up MHA and One Piece to provide clear and unambiguous illustration of the trope.

Regarding the description, do people still think it needs changes? Is it sufficiently distinct from Magic by Any Other Name and One Super, One Power Set to stand on its own?

Edited by StarSword on Sep 5th 2024 at 12:56:31 PM

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RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#14: Sep 5th 2024 at 10:39:49 AM

I'm still not getting why you think the description resembles Magic by Any Other Name - there doesn't seem to be any similarity between them.

Khoshekh6 Since: May, 2022
#15: Sep 5th 2024 at 1:14:11 PM

Yeah, Magic by Any Other Name isn't a type of power system, its a trope about how characters talk about the power system. The powers could be literally anything

Same with One Person One Powerset, that's more of a meta/status quo thing

The reason tony doesn't equip the entire avengers with iron man suits isn't because they are physically incapable of wearing them, but because wearing iron man armor is his thing, whereas hawkeye is the badass normal with a bow, and thor is the thunder god with a magic hammer, etc.

nightlightie Since: Apr, 2020
#16: Sep 5th 2024 at 9:34:19 PM

[up][up][up]

[up][up]Sorry, I was trying to make a point with Malady and Khoshekh 6 and took it too far. I'll focus on the description; the trope of Magic by Any Other Name is comparable due to how a piece of description from redefined One Person, One Power states:

Any magic they exhibit will be a variation of their one power. The power may occasionally have a name to refer to it (compare Differently Powered Individuals).

This part compares the trope with Differently Powered Individuals, except with how powers and magic are known by names. However, Differently Powered Individuals have already compared Magic By Any Other Name with each other in their descriptions. One is about superpowered people in a setting, while the other is about magic and superpowers known by particular names like psionics and alchemy. The changes made by 4tell redefined it from a trope about how people have only one power, then changed to this trope that is supposed to be like Differently Powered Individuals except with how some might have names along with being unique and having one. MBAON already has these attributes, especially when compared with DPI. I noticed something strange about the tropes and that changing OPOP back to what it was would help make them more distinct. However, if I missed something or got something wrong, I am okay with discussing it.

[up]Okay, Magic By Any Other Name is about how powers and magic are identified in a setting, like how Differently Powered Individuals focuses on people with superpowers. One Person One Power was more about how individuals with power only have one for one reason or another in a setting. Also, your examples need to be clearer when discussing characters from the Marvel Universe, as each has different abilities and skills, especially when looking at their origins. Tony Stark is a genius billionaire who invented different Exo Suits for various purposes, along with knowledge of technological engineering. Hawkeye is a sharpshooter who was trained to use a bow and arrow. Thor is an Asgardian known for his superhuman physiology; his other abilities come from the hammer. Some Avengers have Combo Platter Powers; there needs to be more clarification on what you are trying to say.

Edited by nightlightie on Sep 6th 2024 at 8:06:06 AM

Khoshekh6 Since: May, 2022
#17: Sep 6th 2024 at 4:50:24 AM

"The power may occasionally have a name to refer to it (compare Differently Powered Individuals)."

I don't think this is saying anything about the definition of the trope. It's just saying "when this trope occurs, this may also happen"

Regarding my example, im not sure what's unclear about it

nightlightie Since: Apr, 2020
#18: Sep 6th 2024 at 8:01:23 AM

[up]My main point is how One Person One Power was changed from its original definition to be like Magic By Any Other Name, except that it's more restrictive by being limited to one power, especially when it compares itself with Differently Powered Individuals, which was already made before its changes. What I have shown is a part of the description to give emphasis, but the changes made by 4tell0life4, along with some examples that don't follow being restricted by one power or questionable. I also did some digging on the ATT about the troper, who wasn't very cooperative and constructive on the site, which caused them to get banned from the TLP and be permabanned because he kept redefining tropes while not giving much of substantial reasons to back it up. It becomes more distinct by reverting it to its original description and eliminating examples that might not fit where individuals have one power each.

You reference characters from the Marvel Universe, specifically the Avengers, but only focus on one aspect as team members rather than looking more into their abilities and power. Each character isn't restricted to one power. However, most Avengers have multiple powers, skills, and possible equipment. You stated that "hawkeye is the badass normal with a bow," but there's more to his repertoire than that. He's actually a master marksman and art who mastered martial arts, hand-to-hand, and acrobatics while being a skilled tactician who uses high-tech compound bow, arrows, and armor. Your arguments are rather simplistic; you don't go into the other parts of the discussion or give a proper example since you focused on one part compared to the whole to act as a counter-argument. A more comprehensive approach to the topic, including a detailed analysis of each character's abilities, would have provided a more thorough and complete understanding.

Edited by nightlightie on Sep 6th 2024 at 8:04:14 AM

StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#19: Sep 6th 2024 at 8:14:47 AM

[up]You keep saying that, but you're not actually explaining in detail how the changes cause it to excessively overlap with Magic by Any Other Name.

This is that trope's current description:

This is when a work has an intangible element that is obviously supposed to be magic, but is explicitly not called that. Maybe the word "magic" doesn't exist in their universe, maybe Agent Scully is using Insistent Terminology (as maybe their religion explicitly prohibits "magic") — yet whatever power they're using lets them levitate, throw fireballs and anything else that standard-issue Fantasy magic can do. This trope also applies to works where a practiced mystical art such as alchemy, tarot cards or ninjutsu has been broadened to the point where it functions as all-purpose magic. There can also be crossover with Unequal Rites when there are multiple sorts of mystic arts and Applied Phlebotinum in a work.

In a Science Fiction setting, Magic from Technology and "psionics" are favorite stand-bys along with Minovsky Physics, possibly with a "quantum" or "nano" tacked on for good measure. If Everything Is Online, Hollywood Hacking may be utilized as well.

Sufficiently Advanced Aliens that have evolved to the point where the physical laws of reality no longer apply to them (such as the Doctor or Q) generally do not count unless their powers are something Puny Humans can learn.

Sometimes, a more limited power may turn into this over time, due to abuse of New Powers as the Plot Demands.

See Also Sufficiently Analyzed Magic when Magic is treated as like a science, and Differently Powered Individuals for "Supers by Any Other Name". See also: Not Using the "Z" Word, A Mech by Any Other Name, Insistent Terminology, Magic Versus Science, Doing In the Wizard, Flat-Earth Atheist.

I'm just not seeing what you're seeing: Magic by Any Other Name is about what superpowers are named, whereas One Person, One Power is about how it functions. I feel like you're hyperfocusing on one particular sentence of the description and missing the forest for the trees.

Edited by StarSword on Sep 6th 2024 at 11:15:39 AM

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nightlightie Since: Apr, 2020
#20: Sep 6th 2024 at 8:32:37 AM

[up]Okay, sorry, I just thought it made more sense than what it was changed to; it seemed how strange that troper changed the trope and how Magic By Any Other Name compared with Differently Powered Individuals, but I guess I'm wrong. Can I try deleting the examples that don't possibly fit the trope, like My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, Infinite Dendrogram, The Gamer, and Hunter × Hunter?

Edited by nightlightie on Sep 6th 2024 at 8:46:24 AM

StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#21: Sep 6th 2024 at 9:29:15 AM

[up]Sure, cleanup is a free action, just make sure you leave the "misuse" edit reason.

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EmeraldSource Since: Jan, 2021
#22: Sep 6th 2024 at 9:37:04 AM

My general thoughts is that Magic by Any Other Name is describing a supernatural force within the setting that avoids calling it magic because that term carries occult implications. The obvious example is Star Wars and The Force. It's a counterpart to Background Magic Field and Sufficiently Analyzed Magic, where it's omnipresent enough that it doesn't seem weird.

One Person, One Power if anything seems a little redundant with Swiss-Army Superpower, where it's about how versatile one power can be. Where it stands out is the idea the setting focuses on everyone having singular but flexible powers, like Avatar The Last Airbender.

I don't really see much overlap in the description. At best One Person, One Power implies a Meta Origin with a Magic by Any Other Name setup, but examples are quite distinct from each other in purpose.

Comics are just words and pictures. You can do anything with words and pictures.
Khoshekh6 Since: May, 2022
#23: Sep 6th 2024 at 4:33:03 PM

For clarity, my avengers example was talking about One Super, One Power Set not One Person, One Power

nightlightie Since: Apr, 2020
#24: Sep 6th 2024 at 9:01:03 PM

[up][up]

[up][up][up] Thank you for clearing things up; I am grateful for the responses, and I learned about misuse with examples.

[up]Sorry, I misunderstood your post. I thought you were talking about One Person, One Power, but now I see what you are discussing.

Edited by nightlightie on Sep 6th 2024 at 9:01:16 AM

Aquillion Since: Jan, 2001
#25: Sep 10th 2024 at 1:29:49 PM

I think that for things like Jojo or RWBY where there's a "default" enhancement everyone shares plus a singular superpower unique to each individual, One Person, One Power still applies. The added durability of a semblance or the ability to have your Stand fight as a separate person aren't really treated like powers by the setting, they're more the baseline for how fighting works.

It might be more useful to think about the associated tropes and stories for One Person, One Power - tropes are storytelling tools, so the trope has its associated "stories" which can help indicate that something is an example. For example, one major aspect of it is that a new enemy's power will often be mysterious and figuring it out is an important part of fighting them. And once you know someone's power, that's it - they might learn new applications for it, but they're not just going to show up with a totally new one.

More importantly, every "normal" character in the setting has a clear one-sentence or so summary of what their powers are. Guidebooks and the like will often directly reflect this.


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