TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Me's A Crowd potential misuse

Go To

Eggy0 Wizards Don't Own Cats (she/her) (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Wizards Don't Own Cats (she/her)
#1: Aug 27th 2024 at 5:24:14 AM

I have found Me's a Crowd, but after a quick glance at a few on-page examples I have concerns about how it's used.

It clearly defines itself as "the character clones themself so their copy/copies can do their chores instead of the original". Then I found a couple of entries that I'm familiar with, namely Steven Universe and My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic — those examples don't involve chores at all, they're just one of the characters cloning themself a bunch of times and one of them is done solely for the purpose of trying to be in multiple places at once (with this failing as there ends up being a flood of clones). I had a look at a few other examples, and they too boil down to "the character has or gets one or more clones" (which feels a lot like chairs at the base unless given significance).

    Some of the problematic on-page examples 
  • An old Seattle Mariners commercial involved the Mariners cloning star player Ken Griffey Junior so that he could play every single baseball position at the same time. No chores involved.
  • In Angel Beats!, Kanade uses "Harmonics" to copy herself. But the copy is evil, and can also use Harmonics. Just an evil clone.
  • * In Knights of Sidonia, there are at least two Ochiais running around the Sidonia: one having possessed Kunato, and the other acting as Captain Kobayashi's right hand. Pretty much "the character has a clone".
  • The manga adaptation of The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords is all about this: Link is split up into 4 different Links (optimistic and childlike Red; aggressive and over-confident Blue; controlled and intelligent Vio(let); and the (perfectly regular) brave and virtuous green Link) plus one Shadow Link, who came from the Shadow Mirror and serves as an Evil Twin. The five Links superficially differ only by the color of their clothes (and hair, in Shadow Link's case). In the manga pages themselves, they also have their eyes drawn differently (Green: Normal and Clear; Red: Big and Wet; Blue: Smaller irises and Edgier; Vio: hyper focused and empty irises; Shadow: either empty or colorless irises), on the colored illustrations, however, their eyes are all the same as well. Oh, and they constantly bicker with each other. "The character has clones".
  • In episode 23 of Sgt. Frog, Keroro tries to use the (malfunctioning) Kero-Ball to fix one of his Gundam model kits, but accidentally activates the "Copy" function instead, which results in hundreds of Keroro clones infesting the Hinata house and the base. He plans to use these clones to help him take over the planet, but they're all as lazy and goofy as he is and would rather slack off. What's worse, he later learns that unless he gets rid of the clones somehow, the Kero-Ball will overload and all the Keroros (including the original) will vanish. No chores involved. There is also a piece of natter right below, but as it's presented as a "separate" entry and I'm unfamiliar with the work, I have no clue how to fix that.
  • Seven Deadly Brothers from Great Ten is one guy who can split into seven copies, and each copy retains a certain skill set from the original. Character clones himself.
  • In Past Sins, Nightmare Moon uses this twice, once to infiltrate the Royal Guard and once to Fight off several monsters from the Everfree Forest. Partial context example. Even then, this is just the character cloning herself.
  • Dimensional Links: The whole plot is that 18 different Links (plus Shadow and Oni) come together for a Crisis Crossover. There are even Me's a Crowd groups within the group: the Four were originally one person split into four by the Four Sword, and so are Green, Red, Blue, and Vio (also originally one person). In addition, Ocarina and Mask are the same person from different points in their lives. Likewise, they are also many different versions of Ganondorf/Ganon. This is "there are clones of this character".
  • Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: After being turned into a Brain in a Jar midway through Season 4, Anton Ivanov is able to remote control multiple LMDs of himself. No chores involved.
  • Used on the Hipgnosis-designed cover for the Emerson, Lake & Palmer album Trilogy. The inner gatefold has multiple Emersons, Lakes, and Palmers posing in a forest. "This cover has clones of characters", so most likely chairs.
  • Twisted-Wonderland: Cater Diamond's unique magic "Split Card" allows him to create multiple copies of himself, which he uses to complete tasks like painting every rose in the dorm garden. Unclear whether these "tasks" are chores or if he's doing it for efficiency rather than getting out of work.
  • In Command & Conquer: Red Alert 3, clones of Yuriko are used to fuel the Empire's superweapon, and in one challenge mission in Uprising, the enemy will swarm your base with Yuriko clones. Reads more like Expendable Clone.
  • Pumat Sol of Critical Role runs a shop with four identical copies of himself. "The character has multiple clones".
  • Looney Tunes: The Larry Doyle-produced short "Museum Scream" has Sylvester at one point going through a color prism and emerging as several differently-colored Sylvesters (one for every color of the rainbow). The Sylvesters all go after Tweety, sabotaging each other's efforts to eat him in the process. Just the character getting cloned.
  • The Tick: Multiple Santa and his electrically generated Santa Clones. Zero context example. Basically just "this character has clones".
  • In Xiaolin Showdown, The Ring of Nine Dragons can be used to split the wearer into up to nine copies of himself. The catch is that the duplication process spreads his skills and intelligence thin across all the copies. Continued practice with the ring did allow the user (notably, Jack Spicer) to overcome this weakness, though. Character splitting/cloning themself.
Also looking at the title, I have a feeling that may be the main contributor to how the trope is being used, at least judging by the on-page examples.

Thoughts?

DeadlyEspresso Mister Pendleton from your local Popeyes Since: Apr, 2023
Mister Pendleton
#2: Aug 27th 2024 at 5:28:32 AM

I think some of the examples in the list are indeed misuse and should be removed. An exception to this is the Four Swords example, since The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords really is a Me's a Crowd plot.

Yeah, Me's a Crowd does tend to get confused with Self-Duplication a lot. Self-Duplication is about the superpower of making clones, making it a supertrope to Me's a Crowd, which is more of a plot trope or a specific application of Self-Duplication.

Edited by DeadlyEspresso on Aug 27th 2024 at 5:29:33 AM

I literally cannot make out with a television the fuck
Eggy0 Wizards Don't Own Cats (she/her) (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Wizards Don't Own Cats (she/her)
#3: Aug 27th 2024 at 5:59:14 AM

Except that's not what Me's a Crowd is about. As I already described and as the trope defines itself, it's about when a character duplicates themself to get out of doing chores (by making the clone(s) do the chores for them). Four Swords doesn't seem to have that, it's about a character being split into multiple copies by pulling out an item rather than him cloning himself to get out of or at the very least help do a certain task.

Edited by Eggy0 on Aug 27th 2024 at 3:07:00 PM

DeadlyEspresso Mister Pendleton from your local Popeyes Since: Apr, 2023
Mister Pendleton
#4: Aug 27th 2024 at 6:58:29 AM

What?

Yeah, I think this trope might have an unclear definition and might need to get its definition refined to deal with these issues if it ever goes to the Trope Repair Shop.

I literally cannot make out with a television the fuck
DeadlyEspresso Mister Pendleton from your local Popeyes Since: Apr, 2023
Mister Pendleton
#5: Aug 27th 2024 at 7:02:40 AM

[up]Continuing that, if the definition of Me's a Crowd really is as strict as "character clones themself to get a bunch of household chores done", then I think the strictness may be attracting usage issues. Either the trope name should be changed to show the more strict definition, or the trope's definition should be broadened to account for other situations where a character using clones to get a bunch of things done besides chores.

I literally cannot make out with a television the fuck
animuacid The girl of the window from Astyr residence in Lilysthia's grounds Since: Jan, 2024 Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
The girl of the window
#6: Aug 27th 2024 at 7:04:01 AM

Just noting that Me's a Crowd has been in Wick Cleaning Projects for a really long time, it's even in the first edit of the page. And it still keeps the same guidelines:

Me's a Crowd cleanup: 2717 wicks as of 05/28/2024

  • Me's a Crowd is a plot where the main character duplicates themselves. Examples of self-duplication in general should be moved to Self-Duplication.

As the wicks don't seem to decrease, a rename or redefinition in TRS is necessary.

Eggy0 Wizards Don't Own Cats (she/her) (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Wizards Don't Own Cats (she/her)
#7: Aug 27th 2024 at 9:34:40 AM

That's... weird. The definition seemed extremely clear to me. The first sentence explicitly says: "Through magic or super-technology, a character decides to get a large number of chores done via copying themself." The rest of the article further elaborates on this. It looked to me like the title was what was attracting misuse due to implying a broader trope than it says it is. Although it does seem to end on a different concept...

BlackMage43 Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
#8: Aug 27th 2024 at 9:43:43 AM

If the clean-up hasn't done much this should go to TRS for a name change. Me's a Crowd has a much larger wick count than Self-Duplication despite being a much more specific situation, so there's probably considerable misuse.

Eggy0 Wizards Don't Own Cats (she/her) (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Wizards Don't Own Cats (she/her)
#9: Aug 27th 2024 at 9:47:01 AM

Aighty. I'll go ahead and get started with a wick check once I have some time and will see what the results are.

taotruths Live Jet Reaction (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: I sleep in a big bed with my wife.
Live Jet Reaction
#10: Aug 27th 2024 at 9:49:10 AM

I've been mostly cleaning up misuse whenever I see the trope being misused, but renaming it might be a good idea.

Could have sworn there was a TRS thread somewhere for this but I might be misremembering it with just hte wick cleaning.

Eggy0 Wizards Don't Own Cats (she/her) (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Wizards Don't Own Cats (she/her)
#11: Aug 27th 2024 at 12:35:02 PM

^ There was, according to the discussion page. This was the last thread it had, but apparently it never had a resolution.

DoktorvonEurotrash Lex et Veritas from Not a place of honour (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#12: Aug 27th 2024 at 3:01:43 PM

It seems to me that it's the "to do chores" part of the description that's too narrow, if anything.

Do we even have a supertrope of "character creates a bunch of clones of themselves" (we've established that Self-Duplication isn't it)? If not, I feel the current trope should be broadened to match actual usage.

Edited by DoktorvonEurotrash on Aug 27th 2024 at 3:01:54 AM

AnotherOnlinePersona Killed by Chills from Harlequin Forest Since: Dec, 2022
Killed by Chills
#13: Aug 27th 2024 at 9:20:54 PM

To be fair, the name of Me's a Crowd doesn't really make it obvious that this is strictly for chores. It can easily be perceived as person has a large group of clones (or otherwise identical alternate selves) gathered together regardless of context, whereas Self-Duplication is more about the having the power to make clones regardless of how crowded the clones are.

MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#14: Aug 27th 2024 at 10:47:47 PM

Oldest Internet Archive copy. The description, then as now, seems to indicate it's about doing chores but the examples are a bunch of ZCEs and PCEs and the ones with more context don't seem to be about chores. The archived discussion ended up stuck with the name it had under the ptitle system, but it's mostly about what the title was trying to be in the time before we could have punctuation in titles.

This 2011 TRS thread seems to have sparked the creation of the separate Self-Duplication trope, and there's some discussion there of what the scope of the trope should be and what trope should be at what name.

Edited by MorganWick on Aug 27th 2024 at 10:53:34 AM

DeadlyEspresso Mister Pendleton from your local Popeyes Since: Apr, 2023
Mister Pendleton
#15: Aug 28th 2024 at 3:09:54 AM

In conclusion, my interpretation of what's going on with Me's a Crowd is that its current definition is more strict that what its name implies. While the trope is meant to be about a plot were someone duplicates themself in order to get chores done, but it looks to have undergone trope decay into being about any plot were a character clones themself to get a bunch of things done.

I think changing the trope's definition to be more broadly about plots where a character clones themself to get a bunch of things done would be the best course of action, because I think limiting "correct" uses to chores is too strict.

I literally cannot make out with a television the fuck
Eggy0 Wizards Don't Own Cats (she/her) (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Wizards Don't Own Cats (she/her)
#16: Aug 28th 2024 at 4:40:21 AM

Finished checking just over half of my sample (I have 52 wicks to check, I checked 27). The results so far are... worrying.

Those 27 wicks I've checked so far are split between having or making clones, clones being used for anything but chores, misc. misuse, and several potholes (all of which are dubious) and ZCE cases. Every category except making clones to do chores. I haven't found one instance of correct use yet.

Either the name is too broad, or as someone already brought up, the trope is too narrow.

Vehek Since: May, 2012
#17: Aug 28th 2024 at 8:08:53 AM

Here's an example of "alternate selves" I stumbled upon in a work page a while back, and another I deliberately sought out after this thread started.

  • Fire Emblem Heroes: A Day in the Life: A frequent Running Gag of the comic shows the ramifications of being able to summon multiple copies of the same person. "Better Together" had Tiki upset at Bantu because Bantu kept mistaking her for other versions of Tiki present, including an evil version of her.
  • Star Trek Timelines: Players can collect multiple incarnations of the same character, with major characters having dozens of iterations.
Neither would fit under the broader "clones" scenarios.

Eggy0 Wizards Don't Own Cats (she/her) (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Wizards Don't Own Cats (she/her)
#18: Aug 28th 2024 at 8:31:45 AM

I just finished the wick check. The result is quite alarming — not a single wick from the randomly sampled wicks was correct use. Every last one is misuse, including the ones that lack context. The closest it gets to correct use is the entry from Characters.Bibliomania, and even then it's clones assisting with important work and not a chore. The wick check can be seen at SandBox.Mes A Crowd Wick Check

This is 100% taking a trip to the TRS.

themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#19: Aug 28th 2024 at 8:40:24 AM

[up] Definitely queue it up then. Reminds me of Loads And Loads Of Characters, which also had 0 correct use.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#20: Aug 28th 2024 at 9:21:52 AM

I'd just like to note "chores" is a very loosely defined term. While we most often think of it in terms of very mundane daily activities, strictly speaking any task that a person needs to accomplish could be considered a chore.

Eggy0 Wizards Don't Own Cats (she/her) (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Wizards Don't Own Cats (she/her)
#21: Aug 28th 2024 at 10:27:56 AM

[up] I've always associated the word "chore" with "daily and often boring task that needs to be performed to maintain the dwelling/place/whatever". Such as washing the dishes, cleaning your room, vacuuming your house etc. Or generally just a task that a person might not be too enthused about due to it taking up some of your time and having to be repeated on a regular basis.

taotruths Live Jet Reaction (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: I sleep in a big bed with my wife.
Live Jet Reaction
#22: Aug 28th 2024 at 10:59:53 AM

Here's an example of "alternate selves" I stumbled upon in a work page a while back, and another I deliberately sought out after this thread started.

The closest to that, in terms of gameplay, was Multi-Slot Character.

Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#23: Aug 28th 2024 at 6:38:57 PM

The Horatio example in Characters.Endless Space contains a wick to Me's a Crowd, but this one is borderline misuse (though some of the Horatio clones can serve as Horatio the First's servants to do chores on his behalf).

Kirby is awesome.
BlackMage43 Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
#24: Aug 28th 2024 at 8:50:24 PM

The intention does feel like a mix between Self-Duplication and Mundane Utility, so with 0 correct examples this may not be worth salvaging.

DeadlyEspresso Mister Pendleton from your local Popeyes Since: Apr, 2023
Mister Pendleton
#25: Sep 15th 2024 at 8:00:22 PM

[up]No, I think the trope is still salvageable. Most of the usage for Me's a Crowd tends to revolve around a plot where a character duplicates themself to get a bunch of things done, and that does sound tropeworthy. Unless that overlaps too much with Self-Duplication, I think the trope's definition could be refined to reflect how tropers actually use it, because the "plot where a character duplicates themself to get a bunch of things done" is still likely to be tropeworhty.

I literally cannot make out with a television the fuck

Total posts: 35
Top