I think the thrust of the trope is something like a variation on Chekhov's Gunman: the protagonist and antagonist encounter one another by chance early in the story and don't actually realize that they're the protagonist and antagonist at the time. For example, there's a bit in Patlabor: The TV Series where Asuma and Noa go to an arcade off-duty and run into a couple of characters who later turn out to be Arc Villains.
Trust me, I'm an engineer!It's worth noting that the earliest version
of the page was leaning towards my definition #1 with both parties being well aware of their opponent's nature. Seems like trope decay set in in 2014
when troper Miin U added the second scenario which was not in line with the former definition.
Edited by eroock on Aug 13th 2024 at 1:43:00 PM
Gonna ping ~Miin U since they're still active, though I'm not sure if they're going to be able to shed any light on anything that happened a decade ago.
Worth noting that the change in the description happened not too long after the trope was launched and may have been foreshadowed/triggered by a request on the original YKTTW
(which you may have to scroll up to find, for some reason when I click on the link on mobile it sends me to the bottom despite highlighting the comment I intended), which may suggest part of the problem is a name broader than the originally intended trope.
First, thanks for the notification. Hopefully this'll help.
From what I recall at the time the trope was being proposed, it covered both scenarios. The first being one where both parties already know each other as enemies and simply meet by accident - like Butch accidentally running into Marcillus Wallace in Pulp Fiction. Butch literally bumped into Wallace at a traffic stop, while the latter happened to be crossing the street from a coffee shop. Bare in mind that Butch was on the run because Wallace had ordered a hit on him for refusing to take a dive during what was supposed to be a rigged match.
The second scenario is for when neither party is aware of who the other is, until much later (such as the aforementioned Patlabor example). The common thread linking both situations is that the encounter is purely circumstantial. They simply run into each other at a time when neither one expects it.
Firstly, from what I see from the original draft, it only showcased one scenario. Can you point to the part where your scenario was discussed?
Secondly, my problem with lumping these two scenarios into one is that in scenario #1 there is no Dramatic Irony since the characters are as well informed about their opposition as the audience while in scenario #2 there is Dramatic Irony because the audience has more information which changes the emotional makeup of the scene and adds an Internal Reveal for the second encounter.
I may be doing a Wick Check to see how many examples of scenario #2 exist.
Edited by eroock on Aug 15th 2024 at 12:30:33 PM
If I recall correctly, I think both scenarios were discussed while it was on the Launch Pad 'cuz the host was taking examples of both.
The first situation can have dramatic irony if the audience knows what's about to happen in advance. Such as when Katara rushed to Earth King Kuei's chamber to try to warn him that Azula, Mei, and Ty Lee were planning to infiltrate Ba Sing Sei - only to run into the girls she was trying to warn him about in disguise. The audience knew before Katara did, who realized her predicament mere seconds too late and was instantly taken out by Ty Lee.
Incidentally, Azula had no idea Katara was in Ba Sing Sei either... until that exact moment.
^ Saw it now.
I realized my main confusion didn't come from Miin U's added variant but from a more recent change in the description done by a user flower30 who only appeared on TV Tropes for two days in 2020. Shady. They basically merged both scenarios (surprised vs. unaware) into one when making the following addition (green):
I did a wick check (see below) and found there are examples of both scenarios. There are even examples of the middle ground where only one of the two parties is aware of the other.
Given all this information, I suggest reverting the unilateral edit from 2020 which should remove any confusion between the scenarios.
Opinions?
Wick check
- Film.Captain America The First Avenger: While searching for Bucky, Cap happens to spot Dr. Zola fleeing his lab, but abandons pursuing him in favor of finding Bucky. A few minutes later, the two encounter Schimdt and Zola as they all head for the elevator, and Zola ends up cutting them off so that the heroes can't reach them.
- Recap.Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha As 09: Nanoha and Fate accidentally meet the Wolkenritter in the hospital when they drop in for a surprise visit to Hayate.
- Literature.Paraiso Street: Henshaw and Cali literally run into each other during the raid on Vesparez Park's rain market. While Cali barely registers the encounter, Henshaw is dazed by their sudden etheric connection. Later shown to have been subverted as Henshaw and Pagonia had been tracking the white hat Hideo, who had instigated the raid hoping that Cali would be captured.
- Recap.The Life And Times Of Scrooge Mc Duck Chapter 10: Scrooge just happens to stumble upon the Beagle Boys.
- Manga.Go Go Loser Ranger: In Chapter 2, just as D discovers Red Keeper's identity through a poster next to an elevator, Sosei Akabane/Red Keeper himself comes out of the elevator and passes by him. Later in Chapter 52, D happens to come across someone getting arrested under suspicion of being an Invader and managed to talk down the police into letting him go. D would later discover he saved Green Keeper while he was in his civilian clothes. In Chapter 82, D stumbles on Red Keeper changing out of uniform, and takes the opportunity to try and kill him. Much to D's surprise, he succeeds.
- VideoGame.Final Fantasy VII: In one sidequest, Cloud and the gang pursue Yuffie to Wutai after she steals all of their Materia, where they find several members of the Turks hanging out in a bar. Fortunately, the Turks are currently on leave and aren't interested in pursuing their conflict with Cloud.
- DarthWiki.The Caligula Effect Placebo: Kurouji (post Heel–Face Turn) runs into Kiwami-P while the two of them are walking their dogs one day.
- Fanfic.Working Together Raise A Glass: Tracing Davos' movements, Matt and Jessica find him shacked up in a fancy Manhattan hotel. Of course, they've barely had time to inspect the lobby before they end up encountering Madame Gao.
- Film.Tetris 2023: Henk Rogers and Robert Stein accidentally bump into each other outside of the hotel they were staying at on their way to ELORG. After staring at each other for a few seconds, they can only muster a single response.
- Anime.Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha As: Team Nanoha (the heroes) accidentally meets Team Wolkenritter (the heroic antagonists) in a hospital while visiting the Wolkenritter's master Hayate (who also happens to be a friend of Nanoha's friend Suzuka; they didn't know she was their enemies' master until then, however). This takes place just before the Final Battle, so it doesn't go well at all.
- Film.Ariel 1988: Kasurinen runs into a man who robbed him earlier.
- Film.The Town: After the armored car robbery, and the very tense police pursuit in the North End, the gang have managed to escape across the Charlestown Bridge before the cops can block it off and are switching cars... only to, in the midst of switching cars for the second time, stop in their tracks because there's a police officer sitting in his car directly across the street, watching them. After a few seconds of locking eyes, the cop turns his head away, deciding it's better to just let them go.
- Series.Firefly: The episode "Trash" has Mal run into Saffron his ex-wife, who tried to get him and his crew killed on some backwater moon. As soon as they see each other they draw guns on each other.
- Recap.Cobra Kai S 3 E 8 The Good The Bad And The Badass: Robby runs into Tory while he's waiting at the probation office. Tory uses this opportunity to plant seeds of doubt in Robby's mind on Sam's faithfulness to him.
- Literature.The Well Of Moments: The first major action point happens when three opposing groups converge on the hotel all at once—although only two of them meet. Except it's even more complicated, because future!Jasmine accidentally engages with one of the Basemen, and has a chance meeting with Toshiro, at the same hotel that same night.
- BurnNotice.Tropes A To H: Michael is infiltrating a bomb-maker's apartment. The bomb-maker had rigged a booby-trap to the door: a claymore, pointing at the door, tied to a rope. If the door opens, the rope slackens, which will set off the claymore. Michael, luckily, notices the trap and pulls on the rope to keep it taut. At that exact moment, though, the bomb-maker happens to walk in the back door. Though surprised, he quickly takes advantage of the situation, since Michael is standing directly in the path of the claymore and can't let go of the rope.
- Film.Batman Returns: Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle are at the same party when they realize that they are enemies (i. e., Selina figures out that Bruce is Batman, and he that she is Catwoman) while they dance together.
- Manga.Tokyo Revengers: In Chapter 5, just as young Takemichi considers the possibility of an event that could have changed Mikey, he passes by a young Kisaki (though he doesn't recognize Kisaki, only noting that he seems familiar).
- CobraKai.Tropes A To H: These occur so frequently that it seems like fate really wants Daniel and Johnny to collide. To the point where "You've got to be kidding me!" is practically Daniel's catch-phrase. In the Season 2 premiere, Daniel and Robby happen to run into Johnny at the hardware store, allowing Robby and Johnny to have their first confrontation since the All Valley Tournament. The LaRussos go out on the first first date in a while on the same night that Johnny and Carmen go on their first date. Not only do they happen to go to the same restaurant at the same time, they get seated at adjacent tables and can't be moved because the restaurant is booked.
- Recap.My Superhero University Holding Too Tightly Afraid To Lose Control: Tess and Finn bump into each other in the convention center before everything goes further FUBAR.
- JustForFun.Trope Names As Episode Titles: Catarina is on another outing with her friends, only to run into an Alpha Bitch and her crew who she remembers as the antagonists of the Fortune Lover DLC.
- Recap.TNO Fujitsu Guangdong: In a Reconciliation ending with the CCL negotiated with, the two Lee brothers encounter each other by chance while on walks from the new accommodations the've obtained. There, the two brothers reconcile and catch up on all the lost time between them, starting with Hei's profuse apology for turning his back on the family.
- Fanfic.Lamarckian: The Wendigo crashes Best Jeanist’s fashion event in order to sabotage the release of one of Onigashima’s newest products. Little did he expect that Kanna, the girl he wants dead, would be in the very same room. Not that it stops him from noticing her, though.
- Characters.Batman Film Series Villains: Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle are at the same party when they realize that they are enemies (i. e., Selina figures out that Bruce is Batman, and he that she is Catwoman) while they dance together.
- Recap.TNO Sony Guangdong: If Morita fails his personal crisis and goes to Tokyo to request financial support, he will, by chance, enter a bureaucrat's office right as Ibuka is leaving it, surprising the both of them. Making matters worse is the fact that he had to return to his homeland in disgrace and is flatly rejected help from the Ministry of Finance.
- TabletopGame.Mutant Chronicles: One War Zone battle scenario works like this, pitting two scout teams (the Bauhaus and Mishima) against each other. The scenario starts with the sergeants of both sides already dead; both scout teams have been crawling through tall grass and somehow Failed a Spot Check until the leaders nearly bumped into each other.
- VideoGame.Devil Summoner: How the protagonist and Sid first meet in Hirasaki City, until the latter bluntly tells the former that he'll kill him for not having the book with him.
- GameOfThrones.Tropes A: At the Crossroads: The inn where Tyrion and Catelyn collide in "Cripples, Bastards, and Broken Things" is actually called the "Inn At the Crossroads" in the novels since it sits at the main crossroads of the realm's northern half. In "Mockingbird", Brienne and Pod debate the fork in the road leading either north to the North or east to the Vale. Ironically, they choose the Vale but end up heading north in the next season anyway.
- Film.Pulp Fiction: When Butch is waiting at a stoplight, who should cross the street at that exact moment but Marsellus Wallace, the man who put the hit out on him.
- Film.Superman Returns: Lois sneaks onto Lex's yacht (not knowing it's his) and runs into the man himself, while he is brushing his teeth and utterly surprised to see her there.
- Series.The Lord Of The Rings The Rings Of Power: Galadriel spends thousands of years searching for Sauron, only to happen upon him on a raft in the middle of the ocean. Only next episode, Elendil finds Galadriel and Sauron/Halbrand being passed out on the raft.
- Film.The Last Circus: Contrived Coincidence: Javier, out of anyone else he could've stumbled upon in the forest, re-encounters an elder Colonel Salcedo on a hunting trip, who decides to kidnap him after finding out it's the boy that took away his eye. On top of the Coincidental Broadcast about Javier being sighted near the site of the terrorist attack on Blanco, in the very same pub Sergio notices the Ghost Rider having a drink. When he exits, Sergio stalks and roughly interrogates him to obtain more information on Javier's whereabouts.
- Fanfic.A Dragon In Shining Armour: Alphamon just happens to come across DarkKnightmon after the Spring Festival, the first meeting between the two since the latter's betrayal and incarceration.
- Literature.Soon I Will Be Invincible: Dr Impossible is in street clothes, having a cup of coffee and reading the paper when several members of the New Champions run across him and a battle ensues.
- VideoGame.Tales Of The Abyss: There is a scene where the protagonists are going to visit a scholar who have knowledge pertinent to their quest. When they arrive, the Big Bad is already there, reading up about the same subject. The two of them have a bit of a row, but out of respect for the scholar (an old friend of his), the Big Bad leaves without anything coming of it.
- Recap.Star Wars Visions Journey To The Dark Head: Villain Takes an Interest: Toul survived his initial encounter with Bichan, the Sith who killed his master, because the latter saw his potential as an apprentice. So when the two sense each other on Dolgarak, Bichan practically jumps at the opportunity to bring the boy to the Dark Side.
- GameOfThrones.Tropes C To D: While going about their own business, Catelyn Stark and Tyrion Lannister recognize each other at an inn, causing the intrigues of other characters to spiral out of control into an all-out civil war. In "The Children" the two character duos wandering the Riverlands and the Mountains of the Moon bump into one another by chance.
- ASongOfIceAndFire.Tropes A To D: Two characters travelling in opposite directions, going on about their own business Catelyn Stark and Tyrion, recognise each other in an inn, causing the intrigues of other characters to spiral out of control into an all-out civil war. It happens again in A Dance with Dragons when a fugitive Tyrion runs into Jorah Mormont in a brothel they just happened to be visiting at the same time; Jorah seizes him to take to Meereen in the hope of winning back Daenerys' favour.
- Film.Kick Ass: After having his operations foiled, the Big Bad puts a hit out on the eponymous hero. Then, as he's casually driving down the street in his limo, who should walk past but Kick-Ass! Actually a subversion. It was really an unfortunate Kick-Ass imitator, whom the Big Bad shoots in the head, which inspires the real Kick-Ass to retire in fear of his safety.
- Film.All Coppers Are: Joe, Sue, and Barry meet at an event at the beginning of the movie and gel well together rather quickly—moreover, Joe and Sue feel an immediate romantic pull to each other. When the event finishes, they go to a pub together. A man is attacked, so Joe is called by The Bartender to investigate. That's when Barry and Sue, gang members, discover that Joe is a copper. When Barry and Sue's gang rob a warehouse, the police are deployed, and they all become actively antagonistic toward each other.
- Film.Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol 3: While the Guardians are infiltrating OrgoCorp to find the file with the passcode to Rocket's kill switch, Quill incidentally bumps shoulders with Recorder Theel, who has just removed the passcode from the file to take to the High Evolutionary. Quill recognizes Theel later when Nebula is analyzing the file and the record of who previously accessed it. Quill: I saw this guy outside of Records today!
- Film.Die Hard 2: Early in the movie, McClane is shouldering his way through the crowded terminal when he crashes into Colonel Stuart. Colonel Stuart: Excuse me. [He glares at McClane] John McClane: Oh, you look very familiar to me. Colonel Stuart: I get that a lot. I've been on TV. [Stuart starts walking away] John McClane: Yeah. Me too. [We see Stuart glance over his shoulder at McClane as if there is something familiar about the guy, as he disappears into the crowd]
- Characters.Breaking Bad Other Civilians: He meets Walt inside a bar and they have a conversation. Walt doesn't find out that he's Jane's father until he sees his face again on the news.
- Anime.Mobile Police Patlabor The Early Days: About midway through "The SVU's Longest Day part 1", Asuma happens to meet Kai, while he's eating at a ramen noodle stall. He'd later learn, from Gotoh, that Kai was the leader of the rebel army that was laying siege to Tokyo.
- Anime.Patlabor The TV Series: Asuma and Noa go to an arcade center on their day off and end up running into Richard Wong and Bado, who would later become the SVU's main antagonists during the Griffon arc.
- Characters.Ya Boy Kongming: Eiko meets Nanami seemingly entirely by chance, using Kongming's street performance permit to save her from a run-in with the police and quickly befriending her. What she doesn't realize is that she's actually Nanami Kuon, the lead singer of the rising singer group Azalea and her biggest opponent in the the 100,000 Likes Challenge.
- Manga.Sou Bou Tei Must Be Destroyed: Takoha stops for a friendly chat about art with a strange guy, fully unaware that he's talking to Sakamaki Deido, the creator of Sou-Bou-Tei and his enemy.
- Franchise.Patlabor: Happens once in both the OVA and The Mobile Police/New Files continuities. About midway through "The SVU's Longest Day part 1", Asuma happens to meet Kai, while he's eating at a ramen noodle stall. He'd later learn, from Gotoh, that Kai was the leader of the rebel army that was laying siege to Tokyo. In the Mobile Police manga continuity, Asuma and Noa go to an arcade center on their day off and end up running into Richard Wong and Bado, who would later become the SVU's main antagonists during the Griffon arc.
- VideoGame.Guardian Tales: The only reason why the Knight even knows who the Plague Doctor is and what he represents is because the Occult Girl in World 3 asked for them to help her in her studies of the mysterious man in the mask, and the tribulations of Laura, even if the guardian knew very little about him, and this sequence of events supplied the Knight with some foresight when they eventually met again later in the story as enemies.
- WesternAnimation.My Adventures With Superman: In "Hearts of the Father", Clark Kent has a shocking reaction to meeting Lois' father and realizing that he's The General that's been trying to kill him, the latter having no idea that Clark Kent is also Superman.
- Fanfic.Part Of The Night: Blake has no idea Selina is in league with Bruce, so is completely surprised when he turns up at Wayne Manor looking for Bruce's input on what Bane is up to underneath Gotham.
- Webcomic.Weak Hero: Gray's first meeting with Donald, all the way in Episode 163, is pure coincidence, as he leaves a hospital (where he was looking for volunteer work) at the same time as Donald enters (for unnamed medical reasons). Gray is fully aware of who Donald is and feels his heart thumping as they pass, whereas Donald doesn't seem aware of Gray and silently goes his way.
- WesternAnimation.Spirit Untamed: Lucky first meets Hendricks on her train ride to Miradero. He just so happens to save her when she almost falls off the train looking at Spirit.
- Characters.Star Wars Visions Volume 2: Villain Takes an Interest: Toul survived his initial encounter with Bichan because the latter saw his potential as an apprentice. So when the two sense each other on Dolgarak, Bichan practically jumps at the opportunity to bring the boy to the Dark Side.
- Literature.The Affix: This happens a lot, because the Affix is intertwining everyone's fates.
- Recap.Hannibal S 03 E 10: Dolarhyde visiting the Brooklyn Museum to see the original The Great Red Dragon and the Woman Clothed in Sun painting? Straight out of the novel. Will Graham visiting the Museum after being tipped off to the painting's importance by Hannibal? Not so much.
- Characters.RR Dragon Keepers: Even the Chance Meetings Between Antagonists were opposites as Sosei Akabane was standing tall when and proud when D first met him while D unknowingly saved Chidori as he was getting arrested by the police.
- Recap.Voltron Legendary Defender S 3 E 6: Lotor's Generals and the paladins happen to meet at the post.
- VideoGame.Medal Of Honor Frontline: Agent Patterson gets a sneak peek at the Big Bad Sturmgeist during an infiltration mission of a German seaport while the latter is inspecting said seaport. Sturmgeist becomes Patterson's target of pursuit in the later campaigns. Said early encounter occurs during the mission named "A Chance Meeting".
- Recap.Game Of Thrones S 4 E 10 The Children: Brienne and the Hound.
- Film.The Big Tease: Stig and Crawford at the restaurant.
- Characters.Gachi Koi Nenchakujuu: Accidentally ran into Yuu just as her date with Cosmo ended. Also happened to pick up Harumi's wallet and return it to her.
- VideoGame.Octopath Traveler II: In the final chapter, Ori's journal reveals that Castti was with Trousseau the day he met Claude. Claude was able to influence Trousseau, but not Castti, and (correctly) predicted that Castti would be a potential Spanner in the Works.
- Fanfic.Out Of Place Out Of Time: While attempting to infiltrate Beacon Academy prior to the dance and locate Blake Belladonna on the White Fang's behalf, Wayne encountersLiam.
- VideoGame.ANNO Mutationem: While Ann is on her way to The Walter Raleigh, K, a passenger on the boat and actually a member of The Consortium, decides to tell her a story about a past incident. Later, Ann notices that he somehow vanished off the boat before she could ask more questions.
- AffablyEvil.Anime And Manga: Patlabor: The Mobile Police/The New Files: Richard Wong's eccentric, happy-go-lucky, demeanor isn't an act. At least, not entirely. It's just the way he is, as seen in his introductory appearance when he first meets Noa and Asuma. Underneath, however, he's manipulative and cunning enough that he even managed to briefly outwit their captain, Gotoh, who's known for being pretty damn manipulative himself.
- ChekhovsSkill.Live Action Films: While unsuccessfully trying to get a taxi on his first day in Russian, Henk notices a Russian guy raising a pack of Russian cigarettes easily stopping a taxi. After his Chance Meeting Between Antagonists with Robert Stein, he uses the same trick to quickly get a cab.
- Film.Leaving Las Vegas: Fauxshadow: The film seems to be setting the viewer up for a thriller plot or subplot, with its early chance encounters between Ben. the mobsters, and Yuri, with exposition on the latter's increasingly desperate circumstances. But then he's killed, offscreen, and that's that.
Edited by eroock on Aug 17th 2024 at 12:46:53 PM
Since this concerns definition, I think you can place it on the TRS Queue and argue for that eroock.
Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

I have a hard time getting the Chance Meeting Between Antagonists trope from its description. On one side it wants to be about a surprise during the meeting, on the other hand it wants the two parties not to know each other. That doesn't come together for me.
I see two possible tropes here:
Which one is it and do you think the description is doing a good job supporting this take?