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Why is the Record Producer page such chaos?

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number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
#1: Aug 2nd 2024 at 11:16:03 PM

Record Producer seems like it's trying to be an index discussing real-life music producers, but rather than listing them alphabetically, they're arranged in ten different folders with weird, idiosyncratic names like "The Producer from Hell", "The Acrimonious Producer", "The George Martin", "Multiple Producers", "The Man in the Middle", and "Artist as Producer and vice versa". Why? Some of these read as especially judgmental, some of them don't have very obvious names indicating what they actually mean, and some of the categories just don't even make sense (why are "DIY record producers" distinct from "artist as producer"?)... and this makes me wonder why they're there at all, especially since some entries apply to multiple folders, some listed as "See [insert folder] above."

Is there a particular reason why this layout? Do we have to bring this all the way to the TRS to undo this weird mess or can we just break them and arrange it alphabetically like a proper index?

Edited by number9robotic on Aug 2nd 2024 at 11:22:37 AM

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FSharp Resisting a rest Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: I wanna know what love is
#2: Aug 2nd 2024 at 11:20:10 PM

The folders seem to be guilty of Real Person Troping. I wouldn't have a problem with an alphabetical list of record producers, though.

Edited by FSharp on Aug 2nd 2024 at 2:20:25 PM

I don't just Wiki Talk the talk. I Wiki Walk the walk.
number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
#3: Aug 3rd 2024 at 4:46:40 PM

I was lowkey considering the idea that maybe some of these ideas were intended to be subtropes, but yeah, the fact these are all labelled towards real people (not characters) feels like it's crossing inappropriately into real-life troping.

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MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#4: Aug 4th 2024 at 5:15:26 AM

Original YKTTW. Definitely seems like the original intent was a soft-split "trope" from the Wild West era where being more judgmental than warranted and treating the wiki's focus on fiction as a suggestion more than anything else was more tolerated than now.

number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
#5: Aug 4th 2024 at 9:48:24 AM

What are our options in terms of fixing this? I don't believe the actual trope has any problems in terms of definition or usage (people agree on what a Record Producer broadly is), this is strictly a concern to do with how the page itself is written. Should this just be broken down into a normal index with the names arranged alphabetically? If so, do we have to queue this for TRS? Again, it's not a problem with the trope itself and just the formatting.

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number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
#6: Aug 9th 2024 at 7:36:14 PM

Bump for visibility.

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Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#7: Aug 10th 2024 at 2:04:58 PM

I'm down with cutting out all labels as unnecessary and RL troping and indexing producers like we usually do with other creator-type pages. Maybe you can get more opinions on soft split cleanup for undoing the split.

number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
#8: Feb 13th 2025 at 7:24:36 PM

Long bump, but I just remembered Record Producer was still in chaos and I want to see if anyone has any further thoughts before I end up tackling it.

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