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What is Fashion Dissonance actually about?

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GracieLizzy from Sunderland, UK (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#1: Jun 16th 2024 at 4:55:57 AM

So, after some discussion in an Image Pickin' thread I thought I'd bring this here as there seems to be general confusion about what the trope Fashion Dissonance is even about. The laconic says "Outfits that don't fit the time period of the work." but the main description rambles a lot the examples seem somewhat vague, there's also just stuff in the definition folders which seem to go against the laconic as say "works set in or made in an era tend to have fashions from that era" and that's either chairsy or at best a sort of clothing version of Nothing but Hits? The trope seems really confused.

Spark9 Since: Nov, 2010
#2: Jun 16th 2024 at 5:09:41 AM

FWIW, the earliest version of the page is about period-appropriate clothing that looks "slightly ridiculous" by nowadays standards.

...that's probably not a trope, though.

DoktorvonEurotrash Lex et Veritas from Not a place of honour (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3: Jun 16th 2024 at 5:25:42 AM

It sounds like the fashion-specific version of Unintentional Period Piece.

... from what I can tell, the description has the exact same problems as UPP. "Movie made in The '70s has outfits that look like they're from The '70s." My God.

moxeden actually okay-ish from a place of comfort Since: Sep, 2023 Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
actually okay-ish
#4: Jun 16th 2024 at 7:45:41 AM

Shall I bring up off-page examples that don't match the "intended" meaning of this trope (actual dissonance between time period and clothing)?

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CanuckMcDuck1 PEPSIMAN from Japan Since: Sep, 2023 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
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#5: Jun 16th 2024 at 8:17:41 AM

Fashion Dissonance does seem like a useless trope. A trope like Awesome Anachronistic Apparel is more common and makes sense for it’s use. Having a character dress for the time period well is a bizarre thing to trope.

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VampireBuddha Calendar enthusiast from Ireland (Wise, aged troper) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Calendar enthusiast
#6: Jun 16th 2024 at 9:23:46 AM

Huh. Based on the name, I would have thought it was about characters wearing clothes which aren't in fashion, like a clothing-specific subtrope of Two Decades Behind (which I yesterday added to the TRS Queue). Definitely take it to TRS, and I expect it will be cut.

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RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#7: Jun 16th 2024 at 12:18:51 PM

FWIW, the earliest version of the page is about period-appropriate clothing that looks "slightly ridiculous" by nowadays standards.

...that's probably not a trope, though.

Sounds like Aluminum Christmas Trees.

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#8: Jun 16th 2024 at 1:47:21 PM

The title makes me think it's something like "clothes meant to look cool just look dumb" but that's complaint bait.

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UchuuFlamenco Since: Jul, 2017
#9: Jun 16th 2024 at 2:18:08 PM

My first thought was "fashion sense doesn't match what you'd expect from their personality" (eg. Perky Goth). It's not the most clear title it seems.

kundoo Since: Sep, 2010
#10: Jun 16th 2024 at 4:02:42 PM

I think it's supposed to be a fashion version of Values Dissonance, hence the name.

EmeraldSource Since: Jan, 2021
#11: Jun 16th 2024 at 11:25:45 PM

Dissonance generally has two terms on the wiki: an insistence of a certain quality that may not be agreed upon by the audience (ie Humor Dissonance) and a separation of time and/or culture that creates an evolving response to certain material (ie Values Dissonance). Humor Dissonance is one of those tropes on the edge of being objective because the confidence characters have in what is funny can carry its' own weight, while the audience response can enhance it. Values Dissonance requires audience response.

Fashion Dissonance as written seems to be more related to Values Dissonance in principle, but also acknowledges Humor Dissonance aspects in how quickly fashion can shift. The page image illustrates something else about the idea than they intend, as that doesn't necessarily represent normal fashion styles of the time period but specifically hip hop fashion styles, and thus was a little bit off from the start. The trope would be much stronger focusing on characters being confident in odd styles regardless, but that would require a more in-depth analysis of examples and wicks.

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MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#12: Jun 17th 2024 at 12:16:27 AM

The original YKTTW was a single sentence: "Changes in fashion can look regrettable in hindsight." Right from the start there was confusion over how to even write the description that seemed to touch on whether or not it was even tropable even by the looser standards of 2008, and others have raised tropability concerns on the discussion page since then.

GracieLizzy from Sunderland, UK (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#13: Jun 17th 2024 at 11:41:59 AM

[up] Yeah see it seems to have now just boiled down to "thing set and or made in time period has clothes from said time period" which on it's own doesn't seem tropable?

Like I thought it was supposed to more or less "Artistic License Fashion History" - people wearing outfits and hairstyles that don't set the era they are set in for intentional period pieces (i.e. they aren't set in the time they were made - corsetry showing up in the wrong era or before it was invented, women with loose flowing wavy hair in eras when they would have been tied up and so on).

Or for when work set in the the far future uses either fashion from the time it was made which is now out of style or tries to come up with it's own fashion and ends up kinda looking silly (Civilian Clothing in Star Trek comes to mind but IIRC that's covered by Space Clothes and Future Spandex). There's whole other tropes for intentionally anachronistic dress either for personal style reasons or to show a time traveller being a Fish out of Temporal Water (Awesome Anachronistic Apparel, Changed My Jumper).

But it turns out no it's just "this outfit looks silly by todays standards" which is both not a trope and one that's bound to get dated itself as things that are fashionable now will go out of style eventually and other looks may come back in.

Edited by GracieLizzy on Jun 17th 2024 at 11:43:48 AM

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#14: Jun 17th 2024 at 8:47:07 PM

[up]Hollywood Costuming is probably closer to Artistic License Fashion History. The description implies Fashion Dissonance is about works that use fashions from the time they're made rather than from when the work is set, sort of like the fashion equivalent of Future Society, Present Values. Though the description says it can also apply to works set in the past while potholing to Hollywood Costuming.

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eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#15: Jun 18th 2024 at 1:55:58 AM

Here's how AI summarized the description:

Chat CPT: Fashion Dissonance occurs when characters' clothing in a show or film is noticeably out of sync with the period it represents, making them appear dated and out of place, often because fashion trends change rapidly and unpredictably.

Claude: Fashion styles portrayed in movies, TV shows, and other media often become quickly dated and act as unintentional time-stamps revealing the era in which the work was produced, rather than authentically reflecting the intended time period of the story due to the rapid evolution of fashion trends.

Edited by eroock on Jun 18th 2024 at 10:56:10 AM

Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#16: Jun 18th 2024 at 2:44:27 PM

[up]More AI summaries, this time from two different versions of Google Gemini:

Gemini 1.0:

Fashion Dissonance occurs when a character's clothing clashes with the supposed time period of the show. This can be glaring in modern or future settings where trends change rapidly, but it can also happen in period pieces that don't accurately reflect the era's styles. Even clothing intended to be timeless can end up dating the show visually.

Gemini 1.5:

Fashion Dissonance occurs when a show's characters wear clothing styles that are jarringly out of sync with the setting's supposed time period. This can happen when a modern show features outdated fashions, making the characters appear anachronistic. Similarly, shows set in the future can suffer from this trope when characters wear clothing from an earlier decade, creating a disconnect with the intended futuristic setting. This dissonance can also occur in shows set in the past, highlighting the limitations of costuming accuracy and raising questions about the realism of the depicted period.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Jun 18th 2024 at 5:45:04 AM

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Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#17: Jun 18th 2024 at 4:23:34 PM

The examples describing "thing was in style during production but no longer at release" look like Instantly Dated, but more nebulous.

rjd1922 Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular, from the United States Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
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#18: Jun 18th 2024 at 4:58:54 PM

I remembered we have No New Fashions in the Future, so "works use fashions from the time they're made rather than from when the work is set" seems redundant with Hollywood Costuming (for works set in the past) and No New Fashions in the Future (for works set in the future).

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number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
#19: Jun 18th 2024 at 10:57:56 PM

???? why were we just consulting AI for a subjective analysis just now??

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DoktorvonEurotrash Lex et Veritas from Not a place of honour (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#20: Jun 19th 2024 at 6:07:40 AM

[up]I was going to ask the same thing...

UchuuFlamenco Since: Jul, 2017
#21: Jun 19th 2024 at 4:18:36 PM

Yeah, I'm not sure what's the use of AI descriptions if there's no proof that has anything to do with the actual usage of the trope. You can come up with a pretty nice new definition but if it has nothing to do with the actual examples then idk how is it useful at all.

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#22: Jun 19th 2024 at 11:00:07 PM

From what I get from the current description and the trope image, Fashion Dissonance is when an outfit meant to be trendy, hip, cutting edge etc instead looks very dated because of fashion moving on. Like how Zeerust happens when something is meant to be cutting edge and futuristic but instead looks dated because of evolving technology.

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DoktorvonEurotrash Lex et Veritas from Not a place of honour (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#23: Jun 20th 2024 at 5:13:33 AM

[up]That's more or less the impression I got, too.

It's not about anachronistic clothing, except for a quick mention of how present-day fashion sense can bleed over into costume design for period drama (which directs to Hollywood Costuming).

Edited by DoktorvonEurotrash on Jun 20th 2024 at 5:21:47 AM

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#24: Jun 20th 2024 at 1:18:11 PM

I'm not sure why we're posting AI summaries. Like wtf are the AI using as sources.

Anyway, this sounds like a bad case of Not A Trope.

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#25: Jun 20th 2024 at 3:35:00 PM

Disagreed. It's as much of a trope as Zeerust is. It's basically the same thing.

EDIT: Though I guess it's more of an Audience Reaction than a trope.

Edited by PhiSat on Jun 20th 2024 at 3:38:00 AM

Oissu!

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