It's less that he wasn't observant, and more that he just couldn't really give a shit. He know about the events of WandaVision, he just didn't think it was a situation worth interfering with apparently.
Poor Wong has to keep track of so many other superpowered individuals now. Even Nick Fury's probably looking at his workload and saying "Jesus dude, you need to divert some of these guys to me!"
Edited by MatthewWayne on Oct 31st 2024 at 1:02:38 AM
"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."I liked Episodes 8 and 9. I just kinda wish they were more equal to the series as a whole. Overall, yeah, the writing quality felt inconsistent and unfocused. With the episode count and run time, it just needed to be tighter.
The witches' ballad starting as a song with her son and becoming a Siren song for witches? Love that idea. If, I do kinda wish we got this reveal sooner. With it in the final episode, I didn't feel like it had much for it to go narrative wise. If we had revealed it while they were still in the Road, I think it could have been more interesting? As is... well, they're out now so... It doesn't change the actions or motives of the characters much by then. It works as a twist; I like it. It makes sense. I just think the timing is a tad off for the reveal.
I also don't totally buy that this was their endgame from the outright inception. A few things here and there don't totally thread the needle for me. Pointedly- I think our understanding of this is supposed to be that Agatha was always just going to convince Jennifer, April, and Lillia to blast her with magic and then she'd fight the Salem Seven in Westview. Except... Jennifer is explicitly without magic. I can buy her forcing Sharon Davis into the Coven at last min to just fill a void until she can kill the others, but she goes out of her way to recruit a witch she knows doesn't have magic to blast her with. Hence my thought that they developed this twist later on developmentally.
Agatha doesn't go out of her way to recruit Sharon specifically, she goes out of her way to recruit anyone who isn't Rio, who Agatha is actively trying to avoid for various reasons including the fact that Rio wants her dead. Not to mention that there's a good chance that Rio wouldn't have gone with her charade about the Witches' Road. If things had gone to plan, Agatha could have probably threatened Sharon into silence or even killed her.
I liked the finale and I think that the twist works well and was planned from the beginning.
The twist was very clearly planned from the beginning. A lot of people speculated that Agatha was lying about being on the road as early as the premier, and those hints transfer over to the more complex real answer.
regulation pigeonI think people are overlooking the Occam's Razor that Agatha kills witches for their power because she can kill other witches and steal their power. Being as it is how we first meet her with Wanda and how she's repeatedly been described as doing.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.I like how they still kept Agatha as clearly a Villain Protagonist throughout.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadFinished the show, and.... wow. I am not used to getting such a dark turn and ending from Marvel of all people. I am... not sure how I feel about it. I kinda dislike how this makes me feel depressed and down. But at the same time... unlike previous examples, it.... makes sense. Characters behave coherently with how they're established, the twists line up, and overall it's a decent conclusion. So I can't complain. It's a good story.
And.... yeah, I gotta applaud them for making Agatha somewhat sympathetic, yet sticking to the end with the position that she's a bad person and a genuine Villain Protagonist. That's definitely a first for the MCU.
Edited by Theokal3 on Oct 31st 2024 at 7:36:07 AM
Remember part of the problem was that he was planning to do the same thing for Tommy. Well, he's already done that now; the harm is done. Rio might be annoyed, but she'll get them both in the end. At the very least, she can keep her word and not actively go after Billy for a day.
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.Just binge-watched the show in the past few days and gotta say, while I haven't watched a Disney+ show since What If? season 1, this is probably my favorite one. Very engaging and some pretty good character work. Am a little disappointed we never got to learn how Agatha managed to seduce Death of all people. Was she turned on by all the witch killing she was doing? And I'm kind of curious how Agatha ended up pregnant in the first place because she explicitly states it wasn't magical in any way but a bit less necessary to tell to me, I suppose.
Will say I also disagree that the twist about Billy being responsible for the Road didn't seem foreshadowed. For starters, if Agatha was planning on absorbing the powers of the witches she was with, then she didn't exactly need to go to the Road in the first place, so why bother getting them to blast her then? And even if you just assume the power wouldn't have been that much and she would've wanted more, then it's a big risk to do it if the door was just on a delay and they could've easily noticed it before anything happened. Which seems like is what ended up happening until you know it wasn't supposed to exist.
Then there's how callous Agatha is about the lives of the others. Obviously she doesn't care about them personally, but it's constantly brought up that you need very specific types of witches to get through the Road so keeping the others alive should be necessary if she wants to make it out alive, yet she tries to get them killed at the beginning, doesn't seem to care much about keeping everyone alive once the trials start, and even drags along a non-witch who would be and pretty much was nothing more than dead weight. Or the fact that the spell worked even though one of the people involved in the ritual couldn't even sing the song. In fact, I was initially confused how the door still appeared when one of them wasn't even singing for most of it considering how insistent they were on needing a specific amount of people so the fact that it was never real explains that.
And finally, this is later in episode 4, but Agatha argues about "coven two" being the true line of the song which gets a Call-Back in the last episode. It initially seems like a random thing for her to argue about, but it makes sense once you know she made up the song herself about her and her son and would therefore know all the words well. There might be more bits I can't recall, but those are the ones I remember off the top of my head.
"Let’s see who’s stronger: someone that has something to protect, or someone that has nothing to lose."Wonder how much of this could be leading into an adaptation of the Children's Crusade?
People have been hoping for a Young Avengers movie/show for some time, and we've had a lot of hints toward it, but I think time is our enemy. It was already an issue with the main MCU adults (Chris Evans retired as Captain America because he didn't think he could stay in that ideal physical shape. Samuel L. Jackson has stated in interviews that he wasn't expecting to live long enough to complete the stated contract of movies as Nick Fury since he assumed it was going to take decades to get through them) and children grow up so fast.
If Disney is already in the process of it, it could work for a short time, but I'm not holding my breath.
They’ll just get around them being Young Avengers by calling the team Champions instead.
Edited by GateStarX on Nov 1st 2024 at 7:04:21 AM
It's gonna be fun on the bun!If I got one criticism, I'd say it's that the Seven of Salem are utterly wasted. They set them up as these big scary unstoppable antagonists, and in the end they get no meaningful dialogues, don't even get to confront Agatha and are just killed off rather anticlimatically in one episode before the two-part finale. Oh well, at least Vio/Death was a more compelling antagonist. They even had the decency to not kill her.
Edited by Theokal3 on Nov 1st 2024 at 9:18:17 AM
So is Wiccan Billy or William?. I know the show didn’t really give us an answer, but there’s enough evidence leaning towards William dying and Billy taking over his body.
It's gonna be fun on the bun!![]()
Well how would you kill Death anyways?
Edited by Bullman on Nov 1st 2024 at 11:25:33 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
The Cancerverse found a way. Or just massive amounts of resurrections making Death meaningless like in Jane Foster: Valkyrie.
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You hit them on the head with a bowling ball, maybe after a wacky chase scene.
Edited by chino514 on Nov 1st 2024 at 11:15:56 AM
Shows have found ways to kill normally unkillable beings before. Ultron had a built-in system to not get killed and Age of Ultron still found a way to make his death permanent. Death actually died twice in the comic if you include both the Cancerverse and Secret Wars 2 (though obviously in the latter case it didn’t stick). And from what I heard the show Supernatural killed an absurd number of cosmic beings, included their own incarnation of Death (who just got replaced). Any writer can come up with a convoluted bs way to kill normally unkillable entities - heck there are multiple tropes about that on this very wiki.
So this show sticking to its gun and saying Death can’t be beaten is something I appreciate and respect.
I have the same impression. I also just did some research and this variety article
specifically quotes the showrunner as stating William died and Billy took over his body. So I guess there’s no more confusion.

Until otherwise stated, I’m assuming Strange is still in the Dark Dimension. It would be Wong who’d have to look into Billy.
It's gonna be fun on the bun!