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Star Wars: The Acolyte

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A thread to discuss The Acolyte.


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    Original text of post 
We have a first poster for this show, with a trailer due tomorrow.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/img_9726.jpeg

The series was created by Leslye Headland (Russian Doll) and will be set during the High Republic.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jun 28th 2024 at 8:46:10 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#726: Jul 18th 2024 at 11:40:10 AM

Why is she doing that again?

Is it entirely to hide the existence of Quimir from the Senate?

Like, she already admitted that Sol and the others were responsible for a massacre, which caused the very review she was so scared of. So it seems like keeping more secrets serves little point.

Is it to allow Mae to live peacefully now that she has no memories? Because she asked her to help find Quirmir, so there's not much point in that.

I'm still a little unclear on her choice.

One Strip! One Strip!
SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#727: Jul 18th 2024 at 11:49:51 AM

Qimir is her apprentice, so she probably wants of piece of him before anyone else.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#728: Jul 18th 2024 at 12:11:29 PM

She also doesn't have any evidence she can present that Quimir is involved. She sensed him, but no one else was able to. Telling the truth in this scenario is more suspicious than telling a lie.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#729: Jul 18th 2024 at 12:15:11 PM

That makes sense, I guess.

Unfortunately, I expect that the Senate will learn about Qimir (Qimir or Quimir) on their own and use use it as more ammunition against them.

One Strip! One Strip!
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#730: Jul 18th 2024 at 12:16:56 PM

It's pretty straightforward. The episode handholds viewers pretty severely.

Senator: Boy, what's going to happen when a Jedi snaps?

Does Venestra A: Say that one has snapped and is still at large, or B: Say that one has snapped and was taken care of so cleanly and quickly that no one outside the Jedi Order was harmed?

Framing Sol isn't even the solution to the events of The Acolyte, it's potentially the solution to the Senate's oversight issue .

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Whowho Since: May, 2012
#731: Jul 18th 2024 at 12:35:26 PM

I suspect that season two is going to split the Sith and Jedi plots a bit more. Fundamentally the Jedi can't learn too much about Qimir's recent history, not with Yoda involved, so Vanestra is likely going to be investigating his pre-sith history, while juggling the High Republic's politics. Hopefully what she learns, or recounts, gives context to the A plot of what the sith are up to in some other part of the setting.

I would happily see other parts of the high republic, the sith should have their fingers in politics by now, and there is also the criminal and civilian societies to explore.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#732: Jul 18th 2024 at 12:42:37 PM

[up]it wouldnt be the first time he's covered something up, though. And, we don't know what exactly she's going to tell him.

He may have been aware of Qimir and his apparent death already or that could be something that happened during one of his many sabbatical periods.

theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#733: Jul 18th 2024 at 12:54:11 PM

Qimir can't be Venamis; Venamis was a Bith like Tenebrous was.

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#734: Jul 18th 2024 at 12:54:53 PM

[up][up][up] Given Yoda knows about the rule of two by prequels, I actually suspect they will get to learn good deal about what Qimir has been up to.

If I had to guess it will end up similar situation this seems to be where they will decide to keep return of the Sith secret to avoid mass panic while few who know work on hunting them down, only to fail until they again reveal themselves century later.

[up] Well that was the case in Legends, they don’t have to follow it in canon.

Edited by EmperorGeode on Jul 18th 2024 at 12:57:24 PM

Luisdalas Since: Sep, 2023
#735: Jul 18th 2024 at 1:07:21 PM

[up]*2 Qimir doesn't have to be Venamis literally, he just has to be a broad adaptation.

Edited by Luisdalas on Jul 18th 2024 at 1:07:47 AM

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#736: Jul 18th 2024 at 1:25:16 PM

What was the event Mace Windu referee to when he said the Sith were destroyed a thousand years ago? I assume that happened after Darth Bane reformed the order, so that the Jedi would know of the rule of two?

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#737: Jul 18th 2024 at 1:42:35 PM

He's most likely referring to the Battle of Ruusan, which ended the Sith-Jedi war and all the sith were believed to be killed. This was 1032 BBY.

Bane survived and didnt establish the rule of 2 till later.

Yoda most likely learned of the rule following a war fought by a Jedi, Kibh Jeen, who fell to the darkside and killed his master after being sent to investigate a Sith ruin. With his dying breath, Jeen mentioned there being always two.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#738: Jul 18th 2024 at 2:11:04 PM

That's a weird choice in terms of canon, you'd think after the Phantom Menace writers would establish the Sith destruction to happen after the rule of two being established.

I guess it a possibility The High Council mistake Qimir as trying to resurrect the Sith, rather than being a legitimate Sith himself.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#739: Jul 18th 2024 at 2:22:08 PM

Well the whole reason Bane created the rule of 2 is because they were destroyed. And mostly because they turned on each other, as much as the Jedi fighting them led to their defeat.

The rule of 2 was also designed to keep their survival secret. And as we've seen, plenty of people break it. So while it's a bit of "knowledge" about the sith, its like any other scrap of fact about a culture that has been obsolete for 1,000 years.

The Jedi say "always two there are", but its just a thing people say. The actual reality is always more complicated. Even the fall of Kibh happened about a hundred years before Phantom menace.

So as far as the jedi are concerned, all the sith were dead, then 900 years later a jedi falls to the dark side and says, basically, "you can kill me but there's another out there!"

Most people just dismissed it as the ramblings of a mad man. Yoda just happened to be alive the next time the sith popped up.

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#740: Jul 18th 2024 at 2:28:56 PM

In Phantom Menace Yoda and Mace were Fairy centrain that there are always two Sith and there is another after Maul is seemingly killed. Plus in Clone Wars Yoda knows Bane is creator of Rule of Two. It’s not bad explanation in on itself, but it dosen’t really jive with centrainity Yoda shows at “always two there are” and him knowing Bane’s involvement in that.

Plus, Kibh Jeen is Legends only character.

Edited by EmperorGeode on Jul 18th 2024 at 2:31:50 AM

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#741: Jul 18th 2024 at 2:33:34 PM

Thats true.

I think in new canon Yoda encountered a vision of Bane but i cant remember the details.

My main point was that the rule of 2 is something sith break when they feel like it, so even when the Jedi are made aware of it, they dont really know whether or not its true.

Its a bit like...monster hunters. If youve never seen a vampire you might still have knowledge about them. But by definition, your knowledge is already incomplete.

So the Jedi dont even know what they dont know.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#742: Jul 18th 2024 at 2:58:30 PM

Yoda has a vision of Bane in season 6 of The Clone Wars, he's already familiar with him and him establishing the rule of two. Is quite smug about Bane being dead.

Which would make you believe in canon the sith were seemingly re-defeated only a hundred years or two after Bane established his sith.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#743: Jul 18th 2024 at 4:23:29 PM

I mean, I guess?

Bane creating the rule of 2 and the sith being in hiding has been canon for a long time, but the exact details have always been muddy. Even before they switched to new canon.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#744: Jul 18th 2024 at 5:33:27 PM

you'd think after the Phantom Menace writers would establish the Sith destruction to happen after the rule of two being established.

I think the implication in TPM is that the Rule of Two was just always a thing for the Sith, with there never having been a change.

Lucas' original plan might have been that the Sith were always this organization of two evil mastermind cultists controlling an entire cult / army, but then the lore that Rule of Two was established specifically after their destruction came later.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 18th 2024 at 5:34:37 AM

theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#745: Jul 18th 2024 at 5:53:22 PM

The Disney canon has Darth Bane's Force wraith tell Yoda that the Sith killed each other in their lust for power but he was the one to create the Rule of Two still, yeah.

We actually know very little about the "Old" Republic in the new canon. We know that it collapsed at one point apparently during a devastating war that the Mandalorians were involved in; one of them took the Darksaber from the Temple while they were sacking it. We also know that there were once huge battles that the Jedi used to fight in.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#746: Jul 18th 2024 at 5:56:57 PM

Yeah, when I was talking about Ruusan earlier, I forgot to mention that after the end of that Jedi-Sith war it was the last battle of, the Republic did undergo a big restructuring into the Republic more similar to the one of the Prequels.

Luisdalas Since: Sep, 2023
#747: Jul 18th 2024 at 5:57:40 PM

Swtor also had cases of rule of two. (Even though, logically, it should not exist at this time).

Of course, they also used dirty tricks, like using outside help, or outright letting someone kill him for them.

Darth Nox and Emperor Wrath can be played as Starscreams or as loyalists. (This has nothing to do with your moral alignment, so an anti-villain Sith can be played as a starscream, and a “pure evil” Sith can be played as a loyalist).

Edited by Luisdalas on Jul 18th 2024 at 5:58:44 AM

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#748: Jul 18th 2024 at 5:59:02 PM

In the new canon, we don't have a timeline of events, so it is possible Bane might be even more ancient than previously and that the Rule of Two formed before the supposed extinction of the Sith.

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#749: Jul 18th 2024 at 6:11:50 PM

Finished the show. My track record of liking Star Wars things that are seemingly an affront to Star Wars continues XD (TLJ is in my top 3 S Tar Wars movies)

Kaze ni Nare!
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#750: Jul 18th 2024 at 6:12:13 PM

[up][up]new canon still puts Bane's creation of the rule of 2 about 1000 years before TPM, following the battle of Ruusan (Secrets of the Sith and a few other sourcebooks confirm this). In a weird way, the Jedi were somewhat aware of Bane, probably due to him being somewhat known as a figure involved in the war.

A lot of the details have changed, obviously (and could theoritically change again) but for now Bane created the rule of two, trained Darth Zannah, and was then killed by her some time later. The Jedi took credit for his death according to one source, and then went on their merry way thinking the Sith were gone for good.

Edited by ArthurEld on Jul 18th 2024 at 6:19:41 AM


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