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KoshaVinka The Yggdrasil Cretin from Rimestrov Since: Apr, 2022 Relationship Status: You're the prettiest girl this side of the Mississippi
The Yggdrasil Cretin
#26: Oct 25th 2023 at 2:05:02 AM

For Hammy Villammy Serious Herious, There's also Doflamingo vs. Law

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/law_vs_doflamingo.png

Or Mufasa and Scar

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/screenshot_20231025_111215.png

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/screenshot_20231025_111230.png

(Either just one of these two or a Collab)

Or Jack and Aku

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/samurai_jackjpg.jpeg

(I'm sure these two have WAY more images to suggest and I just haven't found them yet)

Edited by KoshaVinka on Oct 25th 2023 at 12:33:58 PM

GracieLizzy from Sunderland, UK (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#28: Oct 25th 2023 at 11:51:34 AM

A lot of these run the risk of not really illustrating the hero/villain part.

23 is the only Batman example I think works without myopia since Batman's design is more traditionally heroic there, and being threatened by two monster clowns with guns is pretty clearly villainous.

26.2 and 26.3 are also pretty okay. You look at those lions and you can tell who is heroic and who isn't. Ditto Samurai Jack. The devil guy is clearly not the nice one here.

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Paperfly Buzz from On The Wall Since: Jun, 2022
Buzz
#29: Oct 25th 2023 at 12:11:47 PM

26.3 best illustrates hamminess in my opinion, so that has my vote

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Ellipsicle fly me to the moon from out there (Private) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
fly me to the moon
#30: Oct 25th 2023 at 2:29:21 PM

Wasn't notified of this discussion; there are lots of good images, so perhaps a crowner is due. Also, if Good Is Not Soft is being kept, I definitely think the current better quality image for Hammy Villain, Serious Hero should replace it.

Personally 23 is my favourite [tup]

Edited by Ellipsicle on Oct 25th 2023 at 10:30:05 AM

Nuts!
Paperfly Buzz from On The Wall Since: Jun, 2022
Buzz
#31: Oct 25th 2023 at 2:37:47 PM

My issue with the Good Is Not Soft image is that there is no indication of Batman being "good", but we'll cross that bridge after we cross the "Hammy Villain Serious Hero" one.

Edited by Paperfly on Oct 25th 2023 at 2:39:25 AM

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GracieLizzy from Sunderland, UK (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#32: Oct 25th 2023 at 3:55:35 PM

[up] I know we try to avoid Fan Myopia but I think the Pop-Cultural Osmosis of Batman is possibly enough to avoid that issue. However, my issue with current is it's still not illustrative because Batman looks more like Good Is Not Nice to me in that image. Whereas Good Is Not Soft is more when someone like Superman who usually has a genial disposition and is a good guy goes cold / harsh towards an enemy. Whereas Batman is in most continuities intentionally harsh and scary towards his enemies, even with his code against killing.

Theharbo Since: Oct, 2011
#33: Oct 26th 2023 at 12:36:31 AM

If I may make my own suggestion for Good Is Not Soft, I feel like we're ignoring someone who fits the "Good" aspect more than Batman.

Optimus Prime.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/optimus_execution_0.png

And for some caption ideas:

Optimus Prime acknowledges your surrender, but don't expect him to accept it if you're Beyond Redemption

Don't expect anyone on this page to pull their punches.

Optimus Prime might be an Ideal Hero under normal circumstances. Unfortunately for his enemies, he's also done granting villains mercy.

Edited by Theharbo on Oct 26th 2023 at 10:37:10 AM

Paperfly Buzz from On The Wall Since: Jun, 2022
Buzz
#34: Oct 26th 2023 at 1:56:59 AM

For Good Is Not Soft, should we wait till after Hammy Villain, Serious Hero is crownered before proposing images?

Also, [tdown] for [up], as it doesn't indicate how Optimus is good. If anything, Optimus comes across more like a "Complete Monster"

Edited by Paperfly on Oct 26th 2023 at 2:00:37 AM

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Theharbo Since: Oct, 2011
#35: Oct 26th 2023 at 2:34:03 AM

[up] You've got a point. The preceding line from Optimus from the prior panel of the comic would make it clear that optimus considers it Dirty Business - but that's not going to stop him.

"If I were like you. If I could think only of myself. I could never do this."

I'll see what can be done to add that later.

For now though, you are right that we've got a bit of conumdrum on our hands: From my reading of this thread, it seems the general consensus is that the current image works better for Hammy Villain, Serious Hero than it does for Good Is Not Soft, but the thread is titled for Hammy Villain, Serious Hero.

So if we could get someone to clear this up: Is this now a thread for picking a new image for Good Is Not Soft, or Hammy Villain, Serious Hero, or both? I'm not an avid forum poster by any means, so I don't know what the correct way to proceed is.

Edited by Theharbo on Oct 26th 2023 at 11:37:56 AM

LeSigh Since: Mar, 2023
#36: Oct 26th 2023 at 5:41:56 AM

[up] You definitely make a great point; is it worth opening up another thread for this?

Also if it matters, my vote's for 23

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#37: Oct 26th 2023 at 7:22:17 AM

The thread could decide that the current Bats/Joker image is fine for Hammy Villain, Serious Hero and replace Good Is Not Soft instead, so I think it's fine to continue discussion here for the next couple of days.

Paperfly Buzz from On The Wall Since: Jun, 2022
Theharbo Since: Oct, 2011
#39: Oct 26th 2023 at 8:41:47 AM

Gotcha, in that case.. to give my two cents on every picture suggested so far for Hammy Villain, Serious Hero

The current: It's... fine. Though it is reliant on the viewer recognizing Batman and The Joker and assigning morality based on that - at least without a caption. But given that Pop-Cultural Osmosis is a thing... maybe that's okay?

17: I like it. And because of the ordering of the two panels, it is "Hammy Villain" and "Serious Hero" respectively. My one complaint is that the Joker's colours is nowhere near as flamboyant as most of his incarnations - but I think the laugh is enough.

19: This works better as a Dark Is Not Evil / Light Is Not Good illustration. Neither of them looks particularily Hammy in this image

23: Personal favorite - I'd say it works even without knowledge of who Batman/Joker/Harley is because of one thing: Guns. The central figure is unarmed and dour while the other two has weapons and are clearly having fun whereas the central figure does not. That gets my vote. [tup]

24: This one.. I don't get, at all.

26.1: Both are quite flamboyant - I don't know a thing about One Piece, and I have no idea who the villain is here.

26.2: Good serious expression on Mufasa! But leaving aside his design, Scar doesn't come off as villainous here.

26.3: Very good. Easy to note how only Aku seems to be having any fun, and he is easily peggable as the villain for a multitude of reasons (Dark Is Evil, Evil Is Angular, Evil Is Bigger, Evil Makes You Monstrous). If not for 23, I'd go with this one.

Edited by Theharbo on Oct 26th 2023 at 6:00:17 PM

GracieLizzy from Sunderland, UK (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#40: Oct 26th 2023 at 10:36:58 AM

How about this? Has Ursula acting over the top to Triton's relative stoicness and shows Ariel is trapped and even it it doesn't show Ursula casting the trapping spell (as would be too many panels) it makes it clear she's revelling in it so is evil so it's probably her doing or she's at least enjoying seeing someone else suffer:

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/hammyursulaserioustriton.png

Theharbo Since: Oct, 2011
#41: Oct 26th 2023 at 11:53:03 PM

[up] I feel that would work better as the single top panel. The middle panel confuses the message by introducing Ariel and two eels, and the latter doesn't work without the middle.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Ellipsicle fly me to the moon from out there (Private) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
fly me to the moon
#43: Oct 27th 2023 at 1:19:54 AM

Well, no matter what wins, I can definitely make an image page for these haha

Nuts!
AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#44: Oct 27th 2023 at 1:27:15 AM

[up] Agreed, though dang, we really need a crowner.

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Oct 27th 2023 at 4:28:00 PM

GracieLizzy from Sunderland, UK (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#45: Oct 27th 2023 at 4:12:45 AM

[up][up][up] See I put the other panels in because I thought people would complain about not being able to tell at a glance who was heroic or not

Theharbo Since: Oct, 2011
#46: Oct 27th 2023 at 4:57:43 AM

[up] I get that, but I don't particularily feel the latter two panels do a good job of it. Playing Devil's advocate here as though I was someone who doesn't know the first thing about the little mermaid:

1st panel: Two opposing figures. One is softer, clad in black, and clearly not taking seriously the fact that the second person is armed with a pointy glowing (presumably magical) weapon. Looks like a villain going You Wouldn't Shoot Me. Going from the trope title alone.. yeah, I can see how this looks like a hero being much more serious than the villain if the dark-clad figure is the villain.

2nd panel: A central third figure with something golden happening to her? Must be something the trident-wielding person is doing, it's the same golden glow. Is he the bad guy? Wait, what are those eels?

3rd panel: What is going on here? The stern figure looks softer, holding out a beckoning hand towards the figure glowing, and the trident no longer is. Meanwhile the black-clad figure is.. lounging? Still smiling, but.. Wait, what was this trope again?

Edited by Theharbo on Oct 28th 2023 at 3:09:45 PM

Ellipsicle fly me to the moon from out there (Private) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
fly me to the moon
#47: Oct 27th 2023 at 11:42:47 AM

Let's wait until a mod gets to this and establishes a crowner

Nuts!
GracieLizzy from Sunderland, UK (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#48: Oct 27th 2023 at 11:46:28 AM

[up][up] Actually now that you put it that way I see what you mean.

EDIT, on that note:

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/hammyursulaserioustriton1.png

Edited by GracieLizzy on Oct 27th 2023 at 11:48:27 AM

Synchronicity MOD (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#49: Oct 28th 2023 at 7:58:35 AM

Crowner hooked. It's big so if I missed something feel free to add it, just post that you did. As always, please use the holler function to ask to modify an option.

Ellipsicle fly me to the moon from out there (Private) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
fly me to the moon
#50: Oct 28th 2023 at 1:07:17 PM

No problem, thank you for the work[tup]

Nuts!

28th Oct '23 7:52:56 AM

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