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Alternate Self clarification

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DarthDavros75 Since: Jan, 2023
#1: Jun 21st 2023 at 4:32:14 PM

Hello, I've noticed and had discussion with others about what really counts as an example of Alternate Self, especially when it comes to things like the Marvel Cinematic Universe and Arrowverse. With the increase in popularity of The Multiverse and using it to retcon different pieces of media and adaptions so they exist as alternate realities to each other, disagreements about how to use the tropes are becoming more common since everyone having a different opinion of what counts that leads to more arguments. Here is a recent example of people debating about whether the trope should be used. Another issue is that some argue that two adaptions of a character coexisting doesn't justify the use of the trope since it simply becomes trivia, while others don't see it that way and think it can be used.

To try and fix this, I think a paragraph should be added to clarify what examples count. This is what I'm thinking it should say:

"Given the rise in popularity of The Multiverse in popular fiction, especially in how it's often used to connect two previously unrelated pieces of fiction or separate adaptions, what exactly counts as an example of this trope can get confusing. This trope is when a specific piece of work features an alternate version of a character either through them meeting, the alternate self appearing in some form such as being The Cameo, or in an Alternate Reality Episode. While a specific work might connect to other adaptions that include the same characters, unless both versions of the character appear or are at least acknowledged to some extent in the same work the trope should not be used."

So as an example, Crisis on Infinite Earths (2019) features the Supermen from Arrowverse, Smallville and Superman Returns. The trope should be used for them since they all appear and interact. Meanwhile both Arrowverse and Smallville Lois appear, but don't meet, while Returns Lois is mentioned and acknowledged to be dead. The trope should be used for all three of them since two appear and one is directly acknowledged to exist. However while Martha Kent exists in all three realities, she doesn't appear in Crisis and isn't acknowledged meaning the trope shouldn't be used for those versions.

If anyone has any disagreements or other ideas about this, please let me know. I just feel that this situation needs to be resolved, since right now it's basically just people arguing over their opinions and there's no way for anyone to not make a mistake or validate whether they are using the trope correctly.

Edited by DarthDavros75 on Jun 21st 2023 at 4:36:32 AM

Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#2: Jun 24th 2023 at 12:06:11 PM

The proposed change is fine with me.

Or rather than define Alternate Self more narrowly, say that incidental examples where the selves don't meet or even acknowledge each other are not meaningful. The problem here is that Alternate Self is/was getting added under individual characters as "X exists from Y work" without anything else, which is trivia at most.

OK:

  • Movie page: Alternate Self: Alice enters a dimension where she meets and teams up with her selves from other timelines, including Alice from Book Series. There are also cameos of Alice from Book Series from the 90s, Alice from Original Movie', and Alice from Comic Adaptation of 90s Book Series''.

Not OK:

  • Character sheet of Book Series: Alternate Self: Retroactively Alice in Movie. This troping happens entirely outside of Book Series.
  • Character sheet of Original Movie: Alternate Self: Retroactively Alice in Movie.
  • Character sheet of Book Series from the 90s: Alternate Self: Retroactively Alice in Movie.
  • Character sheet of Commic Adaptation of 90s Book Series: Alternate Self: Retroactively Alice in Movie.

DarthDavros75 Since: Jan, 2023
#4: Jun 25th 2023 at 3:59:30 AM

I've added it to the page.

fanman "To watch it all burn." from Earth-Prime/Earth-1218 Since: Feb, 2022 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
"To watch it all burn."
#5: Jun 27th 2023 at 11:59:40 PM

So is the Other Universes folder for MCU: Peter Parker Variants fine because MCU!Peter was acknowledged to exist in Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse?

DarthDavros75 Since: Jan, 2023
#6: Jun 28th 2023 at 3:48:30 AM

I would think it does, since it provides a connection between MCU Spidey and the Spider-Verse characters.

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