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Scope of Karma Houdini Warranty -- does it have to happen in a sequel?

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MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#1: Apr 21st 2023 at 3:37:33 PM

Karma Houdini Warranty is about a character who was previously a Karma Houdini finally getting comeuppance. The description explicitly says it has to happen in another installment, implying they have to be a Karma Houdini by the end of at least one installment. But some of the examples are iffy on this. Quite a bit of them are about Big Bads or other villains in serial works that eventually get defeated in the end of the series, but I'd argue that if they're a series-spanning villain, that doesn't really qualify (for example, one of the video examples is of Nobliss Gordon who is a series-spanning villain) unless they get away with it by the end of the series, and then get karma in a sequel series (second seasons don't really qualify). And there are even examples, like the entire Ace Attorney section, where the villain is defeated in the same work or installment they are introduced in, which really doesn't qualify according to the definition.

So are these examples misuse that should be removed?

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#2: Apr 21st 2023 at 3:52:20 PM

I've literally never understood what Karma Houdini Warranty even is, TBH.

SharkToast Since: Mar, 2013
#3: Apr 21st 2023 at 4:17:35 PM

I guess it depends on how you define installments. Do you consider episodes is a series as separate installments? Because I could see a scenario where a villain gets away with a crime in one episode, but gets their comeuppance in a later episode. Would that not fit the spirit of Karma Houdini Warranty?

Edited by SharkToast on Apr 21st 2023 at 4:17:53 AM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#4: Apr 21st 2023 at 4:35:32 PM

[up][up] Basically, character who was once a Karma Houdini is finally given karma. Since in order for a character to be a Karma Houdini, they need to go at least one installment where the plot is resolved but they get away, I would argue there must be at least one installment where they get away. The trouble is in defining what are the parameters for what is considered an installment.

I would say if the villain is a Villain of the Week, which are generally expected to only last one episode, then it can qualify if they return in a Sequel Episode and get defeated there. If, on the other hand, the villain is a series-spanning one (Big Bad, The Heavy, etc) then the general expectation is that they will not be defeated until the end of the season or series.

Edited by MasterN on Apr 21st 2023 at 4:36:22 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
SharkToast Since: Mar, 2013
#5: Apr 21st 2023 at 5:53:45 PM

I would say it depends on how serialized a work is. Because a series can have an overall storyline, but also have filler episodes where The Hero has to stop one of the Big Bad's schemes. Let's say in one of those filler episodes the Big Bad gets away with their scheme. Would that qualify them as a Karma Houdini?

I guess a bigger issue I have with Karma Houdini and Karma Houdini Warranty is what actually counts as karma. It's not uncommon for The Hero to foil the villain's plan, but the villain to gets away. Are they a Karma Houdini because they avoided prison time? Or are they not because their scheme was foiled?

Edited by SharkToast on Apr 21st 2023 at 5:54:13 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000)
#6: Apr 21st 2023 at 5:55:19 PM

Karma Houdini is about punishment. Failing a scheme isn't a punishment; the villain can just adapt and get better.

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nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#7: Apr 21st 2023 at 7:50:45 PM

Basically, character who was once a Karma Houdini is finally given karma.

I mean, that's basically my problem (and FWIW I think we're sort of coming at the same position from slightly different reasons): if the character gets punished, how were they a Karma Houdini at all?

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#8: Apr 21st 2023 at 8:27:17 PM

For a hypothetical example, in Movie 1, the plot is resolved but the villain gets away with everything. The fans get angry and complain (though this does not have to be the only reason), so later on Movie 2, an unplanned sequel, is made, and in it, the former Houdini finally gets punished. So at the time when only Movie 1 was out, they were a Karma Houdini, but come Movie 2 and that is no longer the case, so the “warranty” ran out.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#9: Apr 28th 2023 at 10:18:50 AM

Anyone else wanna add anything, or should I just start making a wick check or something?

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
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