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Kiefen MINE! from Germany Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
MINE!
#3651: May 23rd 2025 at 8:58:35 AM

[up] SW and Kafka both won big time.

Kafka's 75% dot dmg buff and added ways to detonate Do Ts will make her a solid wingwomen for any future Do T character if Hoyo ever goes back to that archetype (fingers crossed for Hysilens)

SW is now a straight upgrade over Pela, her higher base odds to apply her debuffs along with the new EHR to Atk conversion trace will allow her to actually build some personal damage. Lastly her new E2 makes her very interesting for Acheron teams, I already saw a showcase were she along Tribie's Fu As just generated dozens of stacks for Acheron.

Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#3652: May 23rd 2025 at 10:09:24 AM

They seem to be buffing characters more when they're going into a meta that doesn't support them. People are saying Kafka won't work with Hysilens...

TropayXion The i. one. from HEART Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
The i. one.
#3653: May 23rd 2025 at 10:17:01 AM

Should be nice to be able to build a Jingliu that kind of functions. Never felt like she lived up to the hype, but this was during a time where building stats was infinitely more difficult than it is now.

Edited by TropayXion on May 23rd 2025 at 6:17:14 PM

DanteVin The Time Has Come from Somewhere Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Singularity
#3654: May 23rd 2025 at 10:17:44 AM

My reactions to those leaks:

  • I'm more concerned about the changes for Blade and Jingliu. If they now scale entirely off HP, this attracts the need to re-farm Relics for them, huh.
  • Silver Wolf's buffs seem to be loaded, like the effects of the "Before the Tutorial Mission Starts" Light Cone (energy regen) and the "Pan-Cosmic Commercial Enterprise" Relic set (Higher Effect Hit Rate and increased attack) are now both integrated into her kit? It likely means using said LC and Relics equate to further Min-Maxing. On the other hand, I wonder if this opens up the possibility of other Planar Ornament Relic Sets being viable for her.
    • Also theorycrafting about the new mechanic on SW... if SW's implanted debuffs on Enemy A get transferred to Enemy B if the first one dies, would this also provide another stack to Acheron's Ult?
  • Sadly, I don't have Kafka, but an IRL friend of mine might love those buffs for her, considering he whaled during her release banner.

With Great Power, Comes Great Motivation
Cronosonic (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3655: May 24th 2025 at 3:52:41 AM

I got The Herta in like a couple of rolls, which is nice. I'm gonna wait until later to determine whether Hyacine is worth rolling for, her shtick does not really appeal to me at all.

Real talk, how are you supposed to do well at all in Pure Fiction? The threshold to merely progress is ridiculous and I can't imagine how anyone gets stars in this mode, especially F2P players without meta units.

Edited by Cronosonic on May 24th 2025 at 8:53:28 PM

Bexlerfu Khatun of the Azim Steppe from Mol Iloh Since: Nov, 2020
Khatun of the Azim Steppe
#3656: May 24th 2025 at 6:18:00 AM

PF for the longest time was the most free to play friendly mode because you could do a ton of things with units such as Lil Herta or Himeko. Which obviously made some players mad, because for the longest time meta people had been dissing Erudition units as "useless" because they didn't perform in MOC.

Ironically, when people start screaming "POWERCREEEEEEPPP" at the top of their lungs when a new unit arrives, it's almost never because of PF but MOC and/or AS (but mostly MOC). And so, the "OP units" tend not to always perform extremely well in PF for a variety of reasons, and often end up overshadowed by other, more underrated units that flew under the radar.

Anyway, you got Herta, she's the undisputed Queen of Pure Fiction, so if you build her you should be fine (careful with the SP spending though unless you rolled for her amazing LC). You can give her full free to play support (Lil Herta/Serval, Remembrance MC, Gallagher) and she should easily help you clear one half.

(I love this mode because for me it solidified that Rappa and Yunli were the most underrated units of 2024 by far, since they performed very well everywhere including in PF)

Edited by Bexlerfu on May 24th 2025 at 3:20:07 PM

Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#3657: May 24th 2025 at 7:27:39 AM

I got The Herta in like a couple of rolls, which is nice. I'm gonna wait until later to determine whether Hyacine is worth rolling for, her shtick does not really appeal to me at all.

Hyacine is very specifically designed to support Castorice. Pretty much any other team is going to want someone else

Bexlerfu Khatun of the Azim Steppe from Mol Iloh Since: Nov, 2020
Khatun of the Azim Steppe
#3658: May 24th 2025 at 7:42:17 AM

And Mydei. And Blade. And Jingliu, because they (will) scale of DPS.

And Feixiao because she acts a lot.

And The Herta, because she does AOE at super speed.

And Acheron if you have her LC.

Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#3659: May 24th 2025 at 8:06:08 AM

Hyacine absolutely chews through SP. Both because her passive healing is kind of bad, but also because she needs to if she wants to keep her ult up. This is fine for Castorice and Mydei, but absolutely not Herta, and I don't know why you'd even bother for Feixiao when Aventurine exists

SoaringEagle A figment of your imagination from A dream you had (Troper Youngling) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
A figment of your imagination
#3660: May 24th 2025 at 8:45:09 AM

i guess these hot new “game-breaking OP power creep units” aren’t so overpowered or universally-usable after all

hit me up on MSN messenger! ;D
AmethystLeslie Schezo Wegey confirmed for King from IRL Unova Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
Schezo Wegey confirmed for King
#3661: May 24th 2025 at 10:27:39 AM

My thoughts about the buffs for upcoming characters: Gotta rework Jingliu's relics and I can't wait to start working on my brand new E 1 S 1 Blade.

My thoughts about the leaked animations for the new characters: Honestly, just from seeing Phainon, I am 100% convinced to pull for him next. He looks like the embodiment of the meme of "when you unlock the boss as a playable character" in the best way.

Goddammit, Schezo... || *insert incredibly thirsty copypasta about Dr. Ratio*
Bexlerfu Khatun of the Azim Steppe from Mol Iloh Since: Nov, 2020
Khatun of the Azim Steppe
#3662: May 24th 2025 at 10:42:04 AM

Hyacine absolutely chews through SP. Both because her passive healing is kind of bad, but also because she needs to if she wants to keep her ult up. This is fine for Castorice and Mydei, but absolutely not Herta

Herta's current BIS sustain is Lingsha, who also wants to use as many SP as possible to AOE enemies and charge Herta. Not very different with Hyacine, the main change is that Hyacine is faster, which means your SP economy will be different.

But it is extremely comparable and can absolutely work, especially with Herta's LC.

, and I don't know why you'd even bother for Feixiao when Aventurine exists

Because the amount of potential damage is not in the same tier at all. Hyacine has unbelievable speed, which means her attacks might come more often than Aventurine's counters, especially if you kill things fast (which means you don't get hit, which means Aventurine doesn't deal as much damage).

Also - same element, so if you're picking Feixiao to exploit weaknesses, Hyacine does too.

She's not OP, she just works in many situations. The only team where she brings nothing is break where both Gallagher and Lingsha vastly outclass her.

Edited by Bexlerfu on May 24th 2025 at 7:42:53 PM

MB74 Since: Feb, 2024 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#3663: May 24th 2025 at 10:44:21 AM

Coming back and immediately hearing Trailblazer got recast is such a punch in the gut, at least Dan Heng and Himeko are safe.

Imma be honest, don’t mind full hp scaling for Blade since the way the scaling worked meant you mainly wanted HP to begin with, but why is Jingliu hp scaling? The only HP thing was her team drain, it makes no sense and screws her over relic and light cone wise quite a bit.

Edited by MB74 on May 24th 2025 at 2:18:41 PM

I’ll lift my face, and run to the sunlight.
Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#3664: May 24th 2025 at 11:28:48 AM

Herta's current BIS sustain is Lingsha, who also wants to use as many SP as possible to AOE enemies and charge Herta. Not very different with Hyacine, the main change is that Hyacine is faster, which means your SP economy will be different.

Lingsha puts out more attacks and functions fine if she takes a turn to use her basic attack. Hyacine is thoroughly worse in this role

Because the amount of potential damage is not in the same tier at all. Hyacine has unbelievable speed, which means her attacks might come more often than Aventurine's counters, especially if you kill things fast (which means you don't get hit, which means Aventurine doesn't deal as much damage).

Look. If you're using Feixiao to farm calices, the sustain doesn't matter because she's killing everything in one hit before they move. If you're fighting a boss, Feixiao wants that extra SP, and Aventurine's counters build charge and help Numby move faster. Hyacine may have more personal damage than Aventurine, but the synergies just aren't there

She's not non-functional outside of her niche, but she is underperforming

Bexlerfu Khatun of the Azim Steppe from Mol Iloh Since: Nov, 2020
Khatun of the Azim Steppe
#3665: May 24th 2025 at 11:48:52 AM

Look. If you're using Feixiao to farm calices, the sustain doesn't matter because she's killing everything in one hit before they move. If you're fighting a boss, Feixiao wants that extra SP, and Aventurine's counters build charge and help Numby move faster. Hyacine may have more personal damage than Aventurine, but the synergies just aren't there

She's not non-functional outside of her niche, but she is underperforming

Or you can run March, she works very well too, has a 0 SP cost, and allows you to run the team especially since whichever support you use is unlikely to be SP-negative either.

You don't need to fit squares into round holes to make her work. And if you break a boss faster (which is not ludicrous when they share elements and Hyacine uses AOE), you get hit less, which means Aventurine's value decreases because he wants you to take hits to charge Fx.

Lingsha puts out more attacks and functions fine if she takes a turn to use her basic attack. Hyacine is thoroughly worse in this role

Unless you built a hyperspeed Lingsha, she just acts less frequently than Hyacine. You can't compare action-to-action because Hyacine just takes more actions.

And again, like Aventurine, Lingsha hits more if you get hit yourself. If you are faster and hit harder, then she loses value because she might not use the emergency Fuyuan.

Hyacine is not underperforming. At worst she is a premium option because she works well with powerful teams than with middling ones (unless you have one of several HP scaling DPS available).

Point is, saying you need Castorice/Mydei for her to even be useful is just wrong.

Edited by Bexlerfu on May 24th 2025 at 8:50:53 PM

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#3666: May 24th 2025 at 2:43:57 PM

[up]x4 You are forgetting her high speed, Hyacine just will chew through skill points like no one else. Castorice, Mydei and Blade are probably fine but anyone else and she’s just going to leave their skill points empty to keep the ult up. Like not sure Jingliu can do it when you add her typical partner of Bronya to the mix.

She is too skill point hungry to really function as a general healer.

SoaringEagle A figment of your imagination from A dream you had (Troper Youngling) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
A figment of your imagination
#3667: May 24th 2025 at 3:10:15 PM

[up] maybe she just looks stronger because the hot new DPS units castorice and mydei are SP-positive and she works best with them. give her time and we’ll start to see what her weaknesses are

personally, i don’t need hyacine. i have huohuo as a wind healer, and she’s perfectly usable anywhere. at least she can cleanse debuffs right out of the box

hit me up on MSN messenger! ;D
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#3668: May 24th 2025 at 3:59:01 PM

A trace is essentially 'right out of the box' tbh, especially if its not the 3rd one.

Her thing is she scales with speed by a large amount... 200 speed just gets you started, she provides little healing unless you are spending skill points, Ica burns his HP specifically to heal the party the only way to heal him is via using Skill and ult, she needs to spend skill points to keep her ult up which buffs the damage of HP scalers like Castorice, Tribbie, Mydei, Blade and Jingliu.

Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#3669: May 25th 2025 at 3:47:27 AM

Unless you built a hyperspeed Lingsha, she just acts less frequently than Hyacine. You can't compare action-to-action because Hyacine just takes more actions.

Lingsha has a followup. She takes more actions than Hyacine even if she only has 65% of her speed

Bexlerfu Khatun of the Azim Steppe from Mol Iloh Since: Nov, 2020
Khatun of the Azim Steppe
#3670: May 25th 2025 at 4:54:38 AM

Lingsha has a conditional follow-up that triggers once every two turns if a character's HP goes below 60%. That's absolutely not guaranteed, especially in fights where enemies AOE a lot and you might keep your health topped with just her skill. She absolutely does not take more action than Hyacine except when facing some very specific enemies that guarantee one of your characters gets hit hard enough to trigger the FUA every two turns.

Hyacine gets three follow-ups from Ica each time she ults. And if she reaches 200 SPD (which is kind of the point of her build), she will acts three times in the first round of combat, which means Skill —> Ult —> Basic (Ica) —> Basic (Ica).

Even if you get a down turn because your Ult isn't up yet, you can still Basic to charge Feixiao's count. And if she gets action advanced by an ally with DDD (like Tribbie), she will act even more often.

Also, DDD doesn't work well on Fuyuan because he is very slow, so 24% of a slow character isn't fantastic. Ica is tied to Hyacine's turns, and Hyacine will act more than pretty much everyone else, so Ica will profit more from it.

Edited by Bexlerfu on May 25th 2025 at 2:01:47 PM

Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#3671: May 25th 2025 at 5:00:34 AM

Lingsha has a conditional follow-up that triggers once every two turns if a character's HP goes below 60%.

Oh, you've never actually used Lingsha. She has way more follow-ups than just her emergency heal! The rabbit also regularly takes action all on it's own, like Numby or the Lightning Lord. And it also acts after Lingsha ults (which is fairly often)

Bexlerfu Khatun of the Azim Steppe from Mol Iloh Since: Nov, 2020
Khatun of the Azim Steppe
#3672: May 25th 2025 at 5:04:46 AM

Dude she's been my main sustain for six months. I've cleared content with her on one side every week since I got her.

Fuyuan does not act super often unless you spend a ton of SP to advance him with Lingsha's skill, because a 20% advance on a 90 speed rabbit is far from being a Bronya advance. And the faster your team is, the slower Fuyuan will feel because he is stuck at 90 Speed forever.

And while the emergency Fuyuan is "free", her Ult is an action advance, which means that Fuyuan's next action is calculated using his speed of 90. so he goes way down the action order after each ult.

She gets a free Fuyuan on Ult. Hyacine gets three Little Ica uses in a row on Ult. At far superior speed.

And if you build your Lingsha with extreme speed, then Fuyuan will remain at 90 anyway, so you'll have to spend more SP to advance him if that's the plan - and you run right into Hyacine's issue of being SP-hungry.

Lingsha is absolutely a top tier sustain, and she slots in many teams, but Hyacine is kinda like this too. Also, Lingsha kinda needs two different sets of relics if you want to absolutely optimize her for both a Herta team (where she will need to be super fast) or a break team (where it will be more about having Break damage). Hyacine just needs the one set to function.

Also, a final point: Lingsha "only" restores HP back to their max limit. So if you have some hyper-optimized sets of relics for DPS, it's very possible said DPS is very squishy, and Lingsha doesn't do anything for characters who get downed in one turn (or who get focused even after Fuyuan's emergency heal).

Hyacine doesn't restore HP as easily as she does while dealing damage but she also increases survivability by buffing max HP.

Edited by Bexlerfu on May 25th 2025 at 2:19:29 PM

Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#3673: May 25th 2025 at 5:24:35 AM

Dude she's been my main sustain for six months.

Ah, then you're knowingly misrepresenting her instead

She gets a free Fuyuan on Ult. Hyacine gets three Little Ica uses in a row on Ult. At far superior speed.

  1. Lingsha's ult is itself an attack, and she has way less problems building energy
  2. Lingsha's skill is also an attack that she gets in addition to her follow-ups, while Hyacine needs to use her skill to maintain the ability to attack
  3. That speed of Hyacine is actually a huge impediment to fitting her on a team

I mean, yes, you can probably make Hyacine work on a variety of teams if you really try. You can also ignore her gimmick and use her as a generic healer and SP battery. But she's going to be worse than the other options actually designed for the niche. Like every sustain. There's no need to defend her honour this vigorously

Bexlerfu Khatun of the Azim Steppe from Mol Iloh Since: Nov, 2020
Khatun of the Azim Steppe
#3674: May 25th 2025 at 5:39:44 AM

Lingsha's ult is itself an attack, and she has way less problems building energy

Yes, Lingsha's ult gets you two attacks, one by her, one by Fuyuan, provided Fuyuan's count didn't go down to zero. It's also a bit cheaper than Hyacine.

Lingsha's skill is also an attack that she gets in addition to her follow-ups, while Hyacine needs to use her skill to maintain the ability to attack

No, in her Ult state, Ica will attack after her basic attack. The damage will be lower because he won't be as charged, but he will act nonetheless.

If we're talking about teams with Feixiao or Herta where what matters is not "how much damage" but "how often damage", it's an important distinction.

That speed of Hyacine is actually a huge impediment to fitting her on a team

Not really? When you just act more than everybody else you can afford to use Basic once in a while. And if you get hit and Little Ica dies, her turn gets advanced even more.

I mean, yes, you can probably make Hyacine work on a variety of teams if you really try. You can also ignore her gimmick and use her as a generic healer and SP battery. But she's going to be worse than the other options actually designed for the niche. Like every sustain. There's no need to defend her honour this vigorously

You don't have to "try": she'll use the same set pretty much everywhere.

Obviously she is BIS for HP-scaling teams, like Lingsha is BIS for break teams. Saying that...

Pretty much any other team is going to want someone else

...is a pretty extreme view in a game where she's at worse the second easiest sustain to slot in any team after, well, Lingsha.

Edited by Bexlerfu on May 25th 2025 at 2:41:11 PM

MB74 Since: Feb, 2024 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#3675: May 25th 2025 at 6:04:06 AM

...is a pretty extreme view in a game where she's at worse the second easiest sustain to slot in any team after, well, Lingsha
Gonna have to hard disagree on that last point, considering the existence of Huohuo and Aventurine.

I’ll lift my face, and run to the sunlight.

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