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ECD Since: Nov, 2021
#176: Jun 22nd 2023 at 7:36:05 PM

[up]Sure, operationally work with her, but it turns my 'sympathy' and frankly 'interest' knobs down to zero. I'd honestly be more interested in a true believer whose response to 'your allies killed your mother' is 'which ones, I'll see them brought to justice by the Resistance's courts for murdering one of our own.' In that case there would at least be some sort of moral core to the character, even if a twisted one and I could see how this could be a potential ally going forward if they could be convinced to expand their notion of 'one of our own,' to include humans. As it is...if she survives the main conflict, the story frankly ought to end with Talos and Fury's relationship permanently sundered after Fury has Gi'ah killed for being a threat to humanity, which she absolutely is and shows no sign of being interested in stopping. Or, if you wanted to be really dark, he kills/has her killed and Talos never knows that he was responsible.

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#177: Jun 23rd 2023 at 9:28:33 AM

Question that hit me that I hope the show at least addresses: why do the Skrulls have to hide, exactly?

At this stage in the MCU it's not a big secret that aliens exist. The Chitauri invasion was over a decade ago, Asgard has a whole tourist trap community in Norway. Why do they not already have their own community set up?

Especially with the reveal that they're immune to radiation, I'd think they could leverage that into having an officially recognized community in the place where they're currently hiding out. Or, even under the reasonable assumption that the Russian government wouldn't cooperate, surely the fact that they're radiation-immune would make them potentially invaluable employees for any number of jobs that would be dangerous for humans, which they could leverage into setting up a community elsewhere?

It wouldn't surprise me if the answer's something simple like "anti-alien sentiment" or that being shapeshifters makes the Skrulls seem particularly untrustworthy, but I'll be disappointed if the idea goes without a mention. The MCU is well past the "world outside your window" approach that the comics keep trying to cling to (and are also well past).

ECD Since: Nov, 2021
#178: Jun 23rd 2023 at 9:55:43 AM

[up]That was my question to. The narrative sort of plays it as 'oppressed refugees' but they aren't that? No one is oppressing them. Basically no one knows they're there. They appear to have decided 'humanity won't accept us, so we're entitled to do whatever we need to in self-defense' without ever actually being rejected?

One of my big fears for the series is that it's going to turn out that like Gravik got close with a human, revealed himself and they freaked out and he decided that meant that all humanity would never accept Skrulls.

Though actually, if this whole plot was basically 'teenage (do we know Gravik's age in Skrull terms?) Skrull gets dumped and decides to take/over destroy the world in vengeance and his little buddies go along with it,' I'd actually find that sort of hilarious?

Would cast a different light on the one Fury shot too...

Though there's still the mass murder, kidnapping and torture they've already done...

Nope, I'd still find that hilarious.

Edited by ECD on Jun 23rd 2023 at 9:56:28 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#179: Jun 23rd 2023 at 10:14:25 AM

It's impossible to tell anything right now based on one episode in my opinion. We don't know if they are oppressed because we really don't know anything. So I am just going see how it plays out before judging personally.

Edited by Bullman on Jun 23rd 2023 at 12:16:18 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ECD Since: Nov, 2021
#180: Jun 23rd 2023 at 10:35:10 AM

[up]Sure, but that's the fun of speculation before a show is over! Though I think we know quite a bit about the fact that they aren't oppressed by Earth governments as those governments mostly don't know they exist, that's like 95% of the appeal of the show 'there's this new threat that no one but Fury (and a few others) know about, they must address it'.

Edited by ECD on Jun 23rd 2023 at 10:36:11 AM

LadyBlackwood The show must go on from Wouldn't you like to know? Since: Jun, 2023 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
The show must go on
#181: Jun 23rd 2023 at 10:44:28 AM

I don't really have an opinion on Gi'ah yet. But I just realized that if she genuinely believes in everything Gravik says about killing humans and Skrull supremacy and only turns on him because he killed her mother, she's basically a less sympathetic version of First Class Magneto.

Edited by LadyBlackwood on Jun 23rd 2023 at 3:28:17 PM

Hawkeye86 Spirit of Battle from Classified (Searching for Spock) Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Spirit of Battle
#182: Jun 23rd 2023 at 10:52:42 AM

I do hope the issues raised about Fury and Carol not finding a new planet for the Skrulls is explained. Like, do they just give up after a while? Did they try and the Kree always showed up?

You and I remember Budapest very differently
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#183: Jun 23rd 2023 at 11:01:31 AM

Carol is still dealing with the Kree seemingly so it’s possible

There’s also the fact that she went incommunicado for a while and we probably won’t know what that’s about until Marvel’s Marvels

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#184: Jun 23rd 2023 at 11:05:23 AM

There's something darkly amusing that the Skrull's going genocidal terrorist is due to Fury and Carol's apparent failings

Edited by slimcoder on Jun 23rd 2023 at 11:05:30 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#185: Jun 23rd 2023 at 11:08:53 AM

There's a whole note from Talos that "Carol disappeared" around the same time that Fury did, which is interesting as we know she was working with the Avengers at the time.

So maybe something happened from their point of view: she didn't just prioritize keeping the galaxy in one piece after Infinity War over the Skrulls as you might expect, she actively went so deep into something that she effectively vanished - which might track with her being so far away that she only got to Earth in time to help in Endgame towards the very end of the adventure.

Also, is Monica supposed to show up in this series? I remember her and Gi'ah were friends.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 23rd 2023 at 11:10:23 AM

Chaosjunction Since: Feb, 2010
#186: Jun 23rd 2023 at 11:32:42 AM

At this stage in the MCU it's not a big secret that aliens exist. The Chitauri invasion was over a decade ago, Asgard has a whole tourist trap community in Norway.

I don't think it's fair to compare the Skrulls with the Asgardians. They look human and the connection to Norse mythology plus Thor being an Avenger makes it easier for them to create a life on Earth living as themselves.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#187: Jun 23rd 2023 at 11:38:14 AM

[up][up] It does make her Endgame statement "I was doing stuff for worlds without Avengers" take a potentially darker light

While she was helping people around the galaxy, she may have accidentally abandoned the Skrulls and broke the promise she made to help them

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
ECD Since: Nov, 2021
#188: Jun 23rd 2023 at 11:54:40 AM

[up]So having thought about it a bit more, I think this gets at what my actual beef about the Skrulls is, they're basically (until Gravik) passive agents who wait around to be served/saved by Fury/Carol. Which definitely wasn't their previous role.

Maybe the story is boxed in because they're retconned into having been around for 30 years in 2019, but it's really weird that these space-faring shape-shifting aliens who've managed to survive and escape the Kree Empire, who managed to infiltrate and take over SHIELD (though apparently anyone can do that) are suddenly just helpless babies waiting for Fury/Carol to find them a new home.

We've seen a lot of apparently uninhabited worlds at this point, we've seen a lot of people integrate into Earth, but if you wanted an alternative, how 'bout Xandar? Formerly enemies of the Kree, now at peace, but definitely holding a grudge about the whole Ronan thing, isn't it worth trying to negotiate a deal?

And maybe this all has been happening and we just haven't heard about it, but the way it's talked about, it's like Fury and Carol were their only hope and they abandoned them. Skrulls, come on! You're grown-ups with super-powers and space travel, you can solve your own problems!

ETA: And that's where the migrant/refugee analogy breaks down. A refugee's options are incredibly limited, but the Skrull's aren't. They're choosing to not take any of the billions of options available to them (including literally just asking some nation for citizenship in exchange for their tech).

Edited by ECD on Jun 23rd 2023 at 11:56:59 AM

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#189: Jun 23rd 2023 at 12:04:12 PM

I've decided to wait until watching until/unless there's some kind of twist.

I liked the sympathetic/heroic take on the Skrulls in Captain Marvel/the MCU so far, because the whole Skrull/Secret Invasion concept in the comics is really reminiscent of the anti-semitic "Lizard People" conspiracy theory (and more broadly the idea of immigrants being fifth columnists).

And now the MCU is playing that idea completely straight. And like making a point of referencing real world conspiracy theories and saying The Cloudcuckoolander Was Right.

Also kind of iffy to make the plot about the Skrulls trying to start a war between the U.S. and Russia, because that's pretty close to antisemitic conspiracy theories involving the US.'s support of Ukraine.

It kind of reminds me of how the MCU had a good and non-offensive version of the "Wanda goes crazy and has a Face–Heel Turn" story in Wandavision. But then they decided to go ahead and do the problematic version of it in Multiverse of Madness.

I think being Truer to the Text is generally good. But not so much when you previously avoided something "bad" from the original text.

Like I kind of expect Hank Pym will get revealed as a domestic abuser in a future tv show or movie.

Edit - I'm also reacting based on an edit I saw about how this show is being more comics-accurate by having the Skrulls be Always Chaotic Evil. And like it's weird how the comics really treats the Skrulls as Always Chaotic Evil, even though there are non-evil Skrull characters.

Edit 2- I also kind of feel like the message is that Carol and Fury were wrong to ever help the Skrulls. Just like I kind of wonder if the conclusion we are supposed to get from Multiverse of Madness is that Steve was wrong to stick up for Wanda because she was a bad seed all along.

Edited by Hodor2 on Jun 23rd 2023 at 12:07:10 PM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#190: Jun 23rd 2023 at 12:22:29 PM

It does make her Endgame statement "I was doing stuff for worlds without Avengers" take a potentially darker light

While she was helping people around the galaxy, she may have accidentally abandoned the Skrulls and broke the promise she made to help them

Yeah. People have been making fun of Carol leaving Earth behind to its own devices despite being more than capable to help out for years, all because she didn't want to be forced to be a living Story-Breaker Power for whatever conflict is going on.

Now we're seeing a situation that not only could've been resolved with Carol present (or at least making more of an effort to communicate), but her explicit lack of contact has actually made things worse.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#191: Jun 23rd 2023 at 3:40:19 PM

Just watched. I'm not impressed. I should have expected it given the subject matter but it's just not fun. The only entertaining bit really was Olivia Coleman.

So they've fridged Soren and Maria Hill? Shame on them. That's just awful writing.

And I'm not buying the whole you were different after the Snap thing with Fury and his disconnect from everyone. Wasn't Saber full of good skrulls when we saw it Far From Home? Am I misremembering that?

It just seems really disconnected from everything we've seen before, even as recent as FFH. Just... Ugh.

eta: OH and I forgot again by the end of the episode but I hope there's more to Rhodey in this series than giving status reports to the government and he's going to be on Fury's side.

Edited by dcutter2 on Jun 23rd 2023 at 11:49:24 AM

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#192: Jun 23rd 2023 at 6:45:32 PM

I'm going to assume that Gravik's reason for assuming Fury's appearance before shooting Hill isn't just to torment Fury, but also to maybe misdirect authorities and the public.

Okey Dokey!
Bubblepig Steve from Minecraft (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
#193: Jun 23rd 2023 at 9:44:54 PM

While I watch first episode, I'm kinda mixed with the opening credits because of the use of Ai Generated images.

Also what's thoughts on G'iah and the sudden death of Marie so far?

"CHICKEN JOCKEY!"
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#194: Jun 24th 2023 at 3:55:27 AM

[up]6x The Skrulls aren't all evil though. Some follow the extreme path but others like Talos do not.

Just Makima.
ECD Since: Nov, 2021
#195: Jun 24th 2023 at 6:14:30 AM

[up]The Skrulls transparently aren't all evil, as we've still got Talos and...Talos.

But more broadly, they straight up say that Gravik is the newest member of the Skrull Council and Talos has been pushed into exile. They either elected, or appointed Skrull-Hitler to their leadership and apparently are just cool with that, as there's no indication at all that Gravik is trying to hide what he's doing from other Skrulls. They can just show up at his base and be let in and already know that this is the 'Resistance' (side note: resistance to what?) base. At best the Skrull Council, which as far as we can tell is the Skrull government, doesn't care that one of it's literal members is engaged in this activity, at worst they support it.

It's too early to tell, but in trying to make sure that our protagonists are underdogs, it does look to me like they're sliding towards 'almost always evil' with Talos as the exception.

Avenger09 Since: May, 2014
#196: Jun 24th 2023 at 6:34:20 AM

A lot of these problems might have been prevented if they had just made Talos's faction a group of defectors from the Skrull Empire in the Captain Marvel film.

Having them and the Kree be a case of Evil Versus Evil would have made Carol and Talos becoming allies fit a more thematically, I think.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#197: Jun 24th 2023 at 8:09:02 AM

That is how it's like in the comics now that I think about it

While there are pockets of nonviolent Skrulls who want nothing to do with the war, the Skrull empire is largely as imperialistic and expansionist as the Kree

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#198: Jun 24th 2023 at 9:51:22 AM

[up][up] I think that would've overcomplicated - if not damaged - the plot, since the whole point of Carol's story is that she discovers that everything she's been doing is in the service of oppression against people she ought to be protecting.

"Actually, the Kree is right to fight the Skrulls since they're evil, but not these Skrulls, these guys are good," doesn't really do anything but muddle that message, if not possibly completely undercut it.

If the Skrulls as a whole are evil, then Carol wasn't wrong to be the Kree's agent at all, just only in this particular instance was it a problem.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 24th 2023 at 9:52:08 AM

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#199: Jun 24th 2023 at 9:57:02 AM

I agree.

I kind of get why they would have the "bad Skrulls" here come from Talos' group, so the audience has some previous identification with them (and it's not a totally new group).

But it would help to have there be any non-evil Skrulls besides Talos himself.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#200: Jun 24th 2023 at 10:01:07 AM

Yeah I expected they would do a splinter group thing here, its just Talos really shouldn't be the only good Skrull

It goes way too far in that direction

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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