Like many Fountain of Expies tropes, Darkseid Duplicate is exhibiting heavy misuse. Rather than intentional expies of Darkseid, most of the use seems to be of characters who have various similarities to him- cruel leaders who seek to subjugate everyone around them (often through mind control) either For the Evulz or due a belief in The Evils of Free Will. They're often physically imposing, and cultivate fanatical loyalty from their subjects, though this loyalty is derived purely from fear.

I think there is a genuine 'Darkseid archetype' in here that the examples are hitting on, though I'm not sure if it's unique enough to work as a trope. Possible solutions as I see them are to try and broaden it to that 'Darkseid archtype' (which will require renaming, and possibly sending to the TLP), or to disambiguate it.

Wick check results:

• Correct use (intentional Darkseid Expy): 7/50, or 14%
• Literally is Darkseid: 1/50, or 2%
• Expy of an expy of Darkseid: 2/50, or 4%
• Visual similarities + narrative similarities: 8/50, or 16%
• Visual similarities: 2/50, or 4%
• Narrative/personality similarities: 15/50, or 30%
• ZCE and potholes: 7/50, or 14%
• Misc: 8/50, or 16%

Wick check (archived):

Edited by Orbiting on Apr 4th 2023 at 11:27:51 AM

Opening

I don't know enough about comics to say if there's a "Darkseid archetype", but I generally prefer archetype tropes to Fountain of Expies subtropes so if it is real, to reworking into that.

To be honest, out of the superhero expy tropes, this one is pretty rare when it comes to blatant clones compared to the others. You’re far more likely to get archetypes that Darkseid exhibits than a direct homage to him. I’m fine with reworking this.

I agree with converting this from a expy trope to an archetype trope.

Before agreeing to the archetype, I'd like to see what that would mean in practice to make sure we don't have a trope that covers it already.

The page lists Galactic Conqueror, Omnicidal Maniac, and Demiurge Archetype. Any other tropes that have heavy overlap?

Edited by amathieu13 on Mar 28th 2023 at 7:59:09 AM

Good point. I'll retract my vote until we get clarification on that.

I had said that I'd support the archetype if it existed, and I stand by my statement.

I won't mind converting into an archetype.

I agree on whether the retool into an archetype trope is a good idea depending on whether this is a real trope and not apophenia.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 28th 2023 at 7:15:48 AM

Me, I don't think this is a thing; Darkseid just happens to hit a bunch of common evil tropes.

I agree. He already fits into other archetypes like Galactic Conqueror, Demiurge Archetype, God-Emperor, Evil Overlord and others. I don't think there's anything particularly unique about him that we haven't already covered by other tropes.

[NVM, I changed my mind]

Edited by Ayumi-chan on Mar 28th 2023 at 9:45:54 PM

Yeah, I don't think this is an archetype.

If that's so, then let's go with the good ol' disambig.

I'm in favor of disambiguating now.

Disambig

The hallmarks of this, to me, are that the character:

• has immense, if not god-tier power;
• is massively built and physically imposing (built like a brick shithouse, to dip into vernacular), and has Super-Strength at the very least;
• is either a cruel tyrant or has aspirations of such.

Tightening the criteria to those and a rename to something like Godlike Tyrannical Brute seems like the way to go to me, but I won't lose sleep if this ends up just being disambiguated.

Edited by Willbyr on Mar 28th 2023 at 10:04:50 AM

I think that heavyset build is not necessary, but some form of Super-Strength is. An example I'm pretty sure would fit if not for the heavyset part is Sailor Galaxia, who fits the categories of godlike alien tyrant trying to subjugate/destroy all life in the universe For the Evulz and seeking a MacGuffin to further that goal. She even uses Mind Control to keep her subjects in line.

for disambig

I think we can salvage a "Godlike Tyrannical Brute" archetype out of this.

to converting.

Edited by RandomTroper123 on Mar 29th 2023 at 10:24:44 AM

I'm not even convinced there's a real archetype here, TBH. One reason I've opposed a lot of the cuts made to other Fountain of Expies subtropes is because I've often come across examples of them in the wild, either in fiction or on this site, but the only characters I ever really see compared to Darkseid in the first place are Thanos (who's actually fairly different in practice) and Mongul (who does seem like a deliberately stripped-down version of Darkseid, but one character doesn't exactly make a trope). I don't really see a lot of meaning in the proposed Godlike Tyrannical Brute given how common all of those elements are individually in villains.

yeah I've been waiting to see if someone in favor of converting could come up with something distinct, but Godlike Tyrannical Brute just sounds like a more specific version of God-Emperor (and most God Emperors are brutish because forcing your will onto a large group of people often demands brutality).

Many supervillains either have god complexes/superiority complexes or are a literal Physical God and use brutality to enforce their will. It's a pretty common motivation as the logical extreme for Narcissists and we already have several tropes to describe it.

Edited by amathieu13 on Mar 29th 2023 at 1:37:41 PM