Is this tropeworthy/Chairs?

Previous TRS

Looks like there was support for cutting but the thread clocked out due to lack of talking, which wouldn't happen nowdays. So is probably worth wick checking and redoing it.

So about Satiating Sandwich...are sandwiches really that special of a Trademark Favorite Food that they need their own page? I don't think so. This reads more like a bad "Everything's Better with X" snowclone that managed to escape the chopping block. If Bacon Addiction was not tropable, I don't see how this one is.

The name sounds more like "super tasty sandwich" than "character likes sandwiches" so I wonder how many of the (only 151) wicks are misuse.

It actually was a bad Everything's Better With X snowclone originally, which explains a lot.

I can see value in sandwiches in particular being appealing due to the fact you can put anything between bread and make a tasty or at least interesting sandwich out of it, but that feels like a different trope.

Yeah, a trope for silly sandwiches or absurdly delicious sandwiches would be valid — this one ain't it.

adding on to the "this isn't tropeworthy" chain, this idea isn't even sandwich specific. comedic gags involving people putting just about anything in a stew/soup are also pretty common.

Is The Leader a trope or an occasional occupation?

The Leader was one of the many attempts to get the original Five-Man Band to fit in the more rigorous wiki of the 2010s by replacing The Hero role. I do think it's at least potentially tropeworthy as The Team usually has a leader who's usually the main character, and their leadership can be an important part of the plot, but trying to boil it down to four flavors that can invite Type Labels Are Not Examples violations makes me raise my eyebrow.

Edited by MorganWick on Aug 4th 2023 at 2:10:00 AM

Aren't silly overly large sandwiches covered by Dagwood Sandwich anyway?

Renaming to Reliable Team Leader would help with "X leads the team" no-further-context examples, but I'll leave it for TRS then.

I think "leading a team" provides enough plot and relationship dynamic with other characters that it's not inherently chairsy. Otherwise other team roles like The Smart Guy, The Heart, etc. would be equally chairs.

Edited by Adept on Aug 4th 2023 at 6:36:34 PM

That only covers one type of leader though; The Leader combines a bunch of possible traits depending on the character's leadership style and dynamic with others. "Reliable" doesn't really need to be a part of it.

The team leader being the protagonist could be a trope though, yeah. We already have Supporting Leader which is explicitly a subversion of the normal trend.

A Protagonist Shall Lead Them exists, btw

Edited by Malady on Aug 5th 2023 at 7:25:07 AM

We might be starting to drift into the direction of this being a supertrope or index.

@Adept, I don't think The Leader is comparable to The Smart Guy or The Heart. Yes, The Leader applies to social groups but it also applies to formal organizations in ways that The Smart Guy, The Heart, The Big Guy, etc. don't. I've seen it applied to CE Os, military generals, leaders of nations, etc. solely based on their title and not for any characteristic they have. Every General is by definition The Leader, but not every engineer is The Smart Guy. And I think it's this usage that is kind of suspect. "The Leader is a person who leads" is no more of a trope than "A screwdriver is a tool used to screw in nails."

MorganWick's suggestion might be the move, especially if we already have several tropes that cover the outlined subtypes. If not, it might be worth making those.

Edited by amathieu13 on Aug 6th 2023 at 7:38:35 AM

I mean, I do get it, but also a leader is an integral part of the team's dynamic. We can do a wick check to see if it's being used just for "Bob is the leader" or if the dynamic of their leadership role is what's referenced, but to me the dynamic is more of the trope than the actual leadership position is, given that the description goes on about leadership styles and the like. Being The Leader is not just a character's job, it also influences their actions, the way they interact with others, the way they react to things...

A supertrope would be fine, but I kinda feel like it already must be one given how many leader tropes there actually are?

Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 6th 2023 at 12:22:34 PM

What I've meant to say is that rarely I've seen an example that goes any further than stating a character's position, so I've considered the name to be very broad and it could be split up into different types.

I mean, splitting subtropes off is certainly doable however I feel like leaders have more variance in their portrayal and dynamic than other "stock" roles do, mostly because The Leader is the one role that doesn't have to fall into any specific stereotypes. So I guess I worry that splitting up The Leader will result in some... possibly many... examples being left stranded because they don't have a specific type of attitude or dynamic.

I mean, regardless of whether we split up The Leader or clarify it to focus on the dynamic, an example without "a specific type of attitude or dynamic" would probably be a chairs-y ZCE or PCE. Ideally, a usage check would identify whether they contain any tropable content or if they can't usefully go onto any tropeworthy page. And if we end up making The Leader a supertrope we might be able to keep an example section for examples that don't fall into the subtropes.

Edited by MorganWick on Aug 7th 2023 at 3:24:47 AM

wrong thread

Edited by amathieu13 on Aug 7th 2023 at 6:52:00 AM

That's not what I meant. I didn't mean examples that were just "Bob is the leader", I meant examples where the dynamic of him and his teammates didn't fit cleanly into a specific trope. I wouldn't call it "chairsy" to have unique leadership styles and team dynamics.

If the trope covers any kind of dynamic between the leader and his teammates, I question how meaningful of a trope it is, but I could be swayed on the matter. You'd probably need a very good name and description though.