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Magnificent Bastard Proposal Thread

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Old Magnificent Bastard thread

Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

How are they Magnificent?

This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.

How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?

What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.

This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:34:22 PM

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#1626: Feb 12th 2023 at 10:40:50 PM

Ah hell, I'll bump this one post if I have to. My final Fallout 3 candidate is from the 4th DLC Point Lookout.

Taking place in the swamplands surrounding Point Lookout, Maryland, the Lone Wanderer simply hears a broadcast about the sights and sounds of the region and simply decides to play the role of tourist. The introduction is that simple. Players going in expecting a simple romp through a nuclear bogs fighting off mutant hillbillies and drinking irradiated moonshine...will not be disappointed. However, the surprising main plot involves a centuries old feud predating even the nuclear apocalypse finally coming to an end thanks to the aid of a certain wandering tourist.

Who is Desmond Lockheart?

Desmond is an incredibly foul mouthed, 250 year old, suit wearing ghoul who was a key player in the "Great Game" of spycraft between nations before the Great War ended the old world. A veteran spy skilled in assassination and espionage, Desmond found a personal rivalry with the Calvert family who held great sway in pre-war politics. Besides once ruining a Calvert's chance at presidency due to "a scandal with a dog", Desmond's bitterest rivalry was with one Professor Calvert who was a skilled government agent specializing in robotics. Shortly before the Great War, Desmond fatally injured Calvert and forced him to survive as a Brain in a Jar. Desmond himself was keenly aware nuclear war was on the horizon and so secured his own immortality with controlled exposure to radiation that eventually turned him into a ghoul completely immune to radiation.

Even two hundred years later, Desmond still fights his old wars against rivals who he knows will never let him find peace. Tracking down Calvert to the lands surrounding Point Lookout, Desmond sets up his stronghold in the ruins of the Calvert Mansion, both for information gathering purposes and to insult his old rival's ego. Knowing his old rival is capable of controlling others psychically, Desmond had the foresight to build a psychic jammer around the mansion. This leads into Calvert having tricked the local tribals into thinking he's a god and asking them to assault the mansion to kill Desmond and destroy the jammer. The player first encounters Desmond and his two pet dogs defending the mansion from assault, and he quickly recruits the player to his cause with a promise of information as a reward. With the help of traps Desmond has set and by taking advantage of the building's layout, the tribals are driven off and Desmond sends the player off to infiltrate the tribals and discover any connection they might have to Calvert.

Through some drug filled hallucinations, the player infiltrates the tribe and eventually discovers its leader talking with a hologram of Calvert. After killing the tribal leader, Calvert attempts to hire the player to kill Desmond and destroy the jammer for him. Regardless of how the player responds, they will return to Desmond who will ask them to place him jammer on top of a local ferris wheel to fully stomp out Calvert's mind control signal and pin down where Calvert is hiding in the process. Here the player can choose sides as Calvert will speak to them ask them to destroy the device. It's fairly obvious which choice is the right one considering how blatantly evil Calvert is, but the player will return to the mansion regardless to witness it getting blown up. Desmond survives by hiding in his panic room, but he is royally pissed off that both his dogs died in the explosion.

If the player planted the jammer, Desmond will recruit them for the final assault on Calvert's base at the Point Lookout lighthouse. If the player destroyed the jammer, Desmond will have already left anticipating their betrayal and headed to the lighthouse to set a trap for the player. Here they can temporarily side with Desmond to finally confront Calvert. The two will have a final confrontation where Desmond will point out that Calvert has obviously shown no loyalty to anyone that has served him, whereas Calvert will promise the player the best gift a mortal could ask for. Killing Desmond will see Calvert gift the player with...death, or at least he will try before the player easily finishes off a brain floating in a vat of goo. Killing Calvert will see Desmond finally thanking the player for all their hard work and giving them access to whatever they want in Calvert's base. He will then state his intentions to wander north to settle his next ancient rivalry.

Is he magnificent?

Desmond is a veteran spy with all the skill to back that up and is shown to be quite intelligent through his use of traps and outwitting his ancient rival. He also happens to be quite likely the most foul mouthed character in the entire franchise who loves peppering various "fucks" among his otherwise eloquent speech. He's quite the rude jerk to the player as well, but it oddly works as it's all played for laughs and he's solidly established as a Jerk with a Heart of Gold at the end.

Is he a bastard?

He's used to be and still is a ruthless spy that's not afraid to get his hands dirty to finally put his old enemies in the ground. He's certainly got the moral high ground on Calvert who seeks to spread his mind control signal beyond Point Lookout, but Desmond's far from a good hearted person who's not above putting the player in mortal danger to settle his old feuds.

Final Verdict?

I'm thinking a fairly easy [tup] here.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#1627: Feb 12th 2023 at 11:13:11 PM

Desmond seems good to me! Yes.

Just cut this unapproved entry from YMMV.In The Loop:

So, the entry isn't approved, and Malcolm absolutely doesn't count in the film, anyway. His dialogue is rife with way too many Politically Incorrect Villain barbs for him to land. The fact that In the Loop is a very closely-connected Spiritual Successor to The Thick of It actually makes me very concerned over that original take on the character's current listing. I'm gonna give the show a watch, but don't be surprised if I bring that Malcolm up for cutting over on the Cleanup thread because by all accounts, he's very much got some nasty barbs.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#1628: Feb 13th 2023 at 1:58:46 AM

[tup] Igor, Chapeau, Darth Talon, Desmond

[tdown] to Hibbs

Edited by DeathsApprentice on Feb 13th 2023 at 2:00:00 AM

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#1629: Feb 13th 2023 at 2:40:57 AM

[tup]desmond.

Edit: [up][up]For what its worth. The proposer did sorta bring this up that well he's a dick in the show. It's only really because he likes to get a ride out of his collueges and opponents. He actually does like and respect non-politicians. The film excised that stuff.

Edited by miraculous on Feb 13th 2023 at 6:37:46 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Melinda Since: Dec, 2019 Relationship Status: Puppy love
#1630: Feb 13th 2023 at 6:54:00 AM

Yes to Hibbs, desmond, Igor, Chapeau, Talon, and the Mistress.

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#1632: Feb 13th 2023 at 7:11:01 AM

[tup]Chapeau, Talon, Desmond.

[tdown]The Mistress.

I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but are there any other opinions on Matilda? Again I gave my thoughts here, with Pap confirming my suspicions and I ultimately voted no.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
227someguy I hate spoilers Since: Apr, 2017
I hate spoilers
#1633: Feb 13th 2023 at 8:26:33 AM

This is my first EP for Xenoblade Chronicles 3, which currently has two MBs. I’ve been considering this one for a while now.

Who is Cammuravi?

Smoldering Cammuravi is the commander of Colony Delta who happens to be The Rival to Silvercoat Ethel. Upon being defeated by her due to maintenance issues with his Ferronis, Cammuravi took full responsibility and was imprisoned. Seeing a useful warrior, The Heavy N decided to let Cammuravi out of prison in exchange for his cooperation in eliminating Ouroboros, the game’s main party. This forces a Rivals Team Up situation with Ethel, who is being forced into fighting against Ouroboros with her colony being threatened with an Annihilation Event. Due to how the game’s setting works, he has less than a year to live.

Magnificence?

Despite his minimal time in the spotlight, he still shines. Cammuravi is a Genius Bruiser who is considered the stuff of legends, which is why he manages to fight on par with the Action Girl Ethel. To give some context as to how impressive this is, Ethel herself is revered throughout Keves for being able to bring her colony to Silver Rank (the 2nd highest rank), only dropping to Dirt Rank because she refused to kill Cammuravi because of Honor Before Reason. A flashback has him luring an enemy colony into a trap by making it look like his forces are weaker. This causes him to dish out a Curb-Stomp Battle by wiping out the enemy in short order with his Ferronis. The story makes it clear on several occasions that Repressive, but Efficient is completely averted. One such example is when Alexandria is revealed to have poisoned her former commander specifically because of how much he was The Neidermeyer. Another example is how certain party members choose to rebel against Moebius at least partly because they’re Bad Bosses. This means that in order for his plan to work, Cammuravi would have had to inspire Undying Loyalty in his men to the point where they would willingly throw their lives away without regrets, which would indicate that he has lots of charisma and leadership skills. The simple fact that he took responsibility for his loss against Ethel shows that he doesn’t really mistreat his men much, if at all. When he was freed from prison, Cammuravi isn’t shown to be in any despair, despite having mere months left to live. He’s even calmly meditating. He also has a Code of Honour that says he must not attack an unarmed enemy and believes in repaying debts, which he explains is why he fights for N. This code carries over to his reincarnation via Past-Life Memories as proof that he always believed in this way of thinking. Cammuravi has a strong sense of respect for off-seers, whose role is to pay respects to fallen soldiers.

"Off-seers from Keves and Agnus... Fate binds us... I bear none of you ill will, but my Way demands we fight! Come then... and test your mettle against my lance!"

During the battle against Ouroboros, Cammuravi shows himself to be Strong and Skilled, since he can nullify long-ranged attacks via Spin to Deflect Stuff. He is not above giving compliments to anyone whom he deems a Worthy Opponent.

"Good coordination. I'd be finished, if it weren't for this Ferronis."

When the Fat Bastard O tries to hijack his Iris to make him perceive Ouroboros as Eldritch Abominations, Cammuravi makes absolutely no hesitation to inflict Eye Scream on himself to break free.

"I am under no one's yoke!"

Is he a Bastard? Too Much?

All things considered, Cammuravi is Affably Evil. He still chooses to fight Ouroboros, and the only hint that he and Ethel are holding back is a brief conversation where Ethel tells him that Ouroboros are hope for everyone, if it's even supposed to hint at that at all. The party is shown to struggle against their combined might to the point where Taion, The Smart Guy, says that they have to go for broke in order to win. He vocally admits to being grateful to Moebius for giving him another chance to fight with what little time he has left. Unlike fellow candidate Crys who merely uses a Mini-Mecha known as a Levnis, Cammuravi pilots his Humongous Mecha that has a brand new built-in Flame Clock which grants him Power at a Price.

The stunt that he pulled in the flashback is also shown to get some of his loyal men killed, regardless of whether or not they were in on the plan.

Any Mitigating Factors?

The notion of him being an Unwitting Pawn is nonexistent since he makes no blatant attempts to betray the people that he works for. He could have tried to attack O and P once he freed himself from their influence using his shiny new Ferronis, but he chose to fight Ethel to the death. This is because Cammuravi is a warrior at heart who lives for battle. In the end, he and Ethel chose A Good Way to Die instead of trying to help Ouroboros.

Final Verdict

Does he count? Up to you.

Edited by 227someguy on Feb 13th 2023 at 11:28:22 AM

Everyone look at my sandbox
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#1634: Feb 13th 2023 at 8:39:14 AM

I'd also really like at least some comment on what j said about Matilda as well since he has a pretty valid concern and I'd like to see what others feel about it.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#1635: Feb 13th 2023 at 8:48:20 AM

[tup] Igor.

[tup] Chapeau el "Esmirriau".

[tup] Talon.

[tup] Lockheart.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#1636: Feb 13th 2023 at 9:11:31 AM

Leaning [tdown] on matilda for the above reasons, and Cammuravi for seeming like a cool villain who doesn't quite break MB threshold

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Klavice (Elder Troper)
#1637: Feb 13th 2023 at 9:11:46 AM

Yes to Igor, Chapeau, Darth Talon, and Desmond.

Think I'll switch to a [tdown] for Matilda given the Heinous standard is high, but not high enough that she can count.

As for Cammuravi, I think I'll say no to him too as he doesn't seem all that much of a bastard. He's intelligent but his motif of talking with his mecha rather than rationally thinking things through, I think he's like a not as intelligent Axel from Kingdom Hearts. Except Axel doesn't solely use his strength and is able to manipulate whereas Cammuravi just kinda lets the pieces fall. Also his recklessness screams General Failure. What do I mean by this? He's not an idiot, but his reckless actions caused the death of several of his men when it could have been avoided.

Edited by Klavice on Feb 13th 2023 at 9:23:30 AM

227someguy I hate spoilers Since: Apr, 2017
I hate spoilers
#1638: Feb 13th 2023 at 9:27:22 AM

Mission failed, we’ll get it next time. I guess you can’t win them all.

Everyone look at my sandbox
Klavice (Elder Troper)
#1639: Feb 13th 2023 at 9:28:46 AM

Hey, don't let it get you down. It was an honest effort, and I'm sure you'll have plenty more examples soon!

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#1640: Feb 13th 2023 at 10:55:36 AM

Just to make sure I understand why Matilda is being downvoted (since this will affect who I propose in the future). Is it that what she's doing is too bad period, or is she too bad both because of what she's doing and because her motivations are too selfish?

To elaborate, if she was a Well-Intentioned Extremist instead of being Only in It for the Money would she be more likely to count?

Edited by papyru30 on Feb 13th 2023 at 12:18:03 PM

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#1641: Feb 13th 2023 at 10:55:43 AM

[tdown] for Cammuravi

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
Melinda Since: Dec, 2019 Relationship Status: Puppy love
#1642: Feb 13th 2023 at 11:44:53 AM

  • "Surprise Ending": Jack Kelley is an abused foster child and crime show buff-turned mob boss and Maggie Daye is a burgeoning mystery author. They maintain a close friendship after Kelley and his wife consoled Maggie through the loss of a loved one and implicitly have the drunk driver responsible for her loss murdered. Jack faces threats to his power from another crime boss and a politically-ambitious police detective, but knows that killing them will create its own series of problems. He asks Maggie to use her literary imagination to plan a solution for him, and they use a crooked police informant to feed the detective the idea of hiring an obnoxious peer of Maggie's as a consultant to come up with a plot to take down Kelley's rival drug kingpin. They use Maggie's knowledge of the other author to anticipate what his plan will be, let the other boss get arrested, frame the detective for stealing money from the crime scene, and expose the consultant to the media to make him flee town. The story ends with Jack and Maggie celebrating the success of their brilliant yet amoral plan as Jack prepares to become the city's sole crime lord.

Work

Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea is an Ocean of Adventure crew about a military submarine, the Seaview, having Cold War adventures and fighting monsters

Character

In the episode “No Way Out”, Eastern Bloc agent Victor Vail is introduced conducting a training mission in a replica of the Seaview and knocking out guards. When his boss tells him he broke one man’s back, he shrugs and says better to weed out failures on the field than here, with his boss saying he isn’t sure if Victor is a master student or he is a master teacher as the two display a Villainous Friendship. Sent to kill a defector, Anton,Victor intercepts a CIA debriefer, Parker, and after winning his trust, kills him with a remote triggered spike in his car seat then assumes his identity. He is kept from being alone with Anton due to repeated flukes like a guard who should have let him enter the sick bay misunderstanding his orders on who to keep out.

He tries to quickly counter those obstacles and is insistent about having opportunities to talk to Anton but triedsto apologize for his intensity afterward to seem like an ally. He also uses a lock pick to break into Big Good Nelson’s office to memorize the ventilation maps so he can kill Anton and escape. When one of his assassination attempts is interrupted by a call from the real Parker’s superiors, they use code phrases that he doesn’t know but tries to bluff through. When the men in Washington reveal the deception to the crew, Victor escapes from a room full of men and through the corridors, knocking out men with martial arts moves or shooting them before escaping into the vents and evading capture there for a while, silently killing or knocking out another pursuer.

When he reaches the sick bay he only pauses upon seeing Anton’s girlfriend is another agent who is planning to kill Anton herself. He watches respectfully as she tries and then leaves the vent to help her when Victor fights back, although they are stopped when guards charge into the room. Anton does not acted shocked or upset when his fellow agent pulls a Wounded Gazelle Gambit, either due to being focused on his struggle, wanting her to have a chance to kill the defector if he’s captured (she fails when someeone who chased Victor into the vents spots her try to kill Anton after Victor is taken away), or both.

Mitigating factors

At times he can’t quite conceal his frustration while trying to act calm but it doesn’t last too long and other times he is fairly good at it.

Edited by Melinda on Feb 13th 2023 at 1:30:54 AM

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#1643: Feb 13th 2023 at 12:13:29 PM

[up][up][up]We've upvoted selfish people before. Hell, some of the most well known examples are selfish in some form. I'm doing it because she's almost as bad as the other villains with a high heinous standard. As for Victor, I feel like it's not explained enough in a few areas such as when he loses his cool, does he recover? We've downvoted examples for being undignified in their defeat or loss. Exception being if they make a full recovery.

Edited by Klavice on Feb 13th 2023 at 12:17:40 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#1644: Feb 13th 2023 at 12:30:20 PM

We've upvoted selfish people before. Hell, some of the most well known examples are selfish in some form. I'm doing it because she's almost as bad as the other villains with a high heinous standard
I admit I don't really get this argument? When this is just a simple destroy and remake the universe scheme. Which in sure we have plenty of examples for?

Granted I'm not really getting any like charm or charisma to balance out stuff like that those guys have. Like what's the emphasis on? Her being a dick or her being sauve? EP isn't clear.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Koopa22 Since: Feb, 2021 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
#1645: Feb 13th 2023 at 2:21:00 PM

Okay, now that there's a new page I can post this:

What is the work?

Equestria at War is a Game Mod for Paradox Interactive's Grand Strategy Game Hearts of Iron IV and a Fan Game of My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic that blends the detailed World War II and political simulation of Hearts of Iron IV with a modified, grimmer version of the My Little Pony setting and storyline.

Who is the Candidate and what have they done?

Protectoress Lilac is the ruler of the Manehattan Protectorate, created by Queen Chrysalis to help smooth the occupation of a conquered Equestria. The Protectorate, to put it bluntly, is in chaos, and Lilac has the task of stabilizing it.

Starting off, Lilac performs incredibly well in handling Manehattan, securing her control over it one focus at a time. I can’t put every focus here otherwise this would be WAY too long, but highlights include the Spyeye program, a propaganda campaign disguising itself as a surveillance program to make the ponies think they’re being watched, beginning a radio program with her as the speaker, making deals with pony collaborators to fill the bureaucracy gaps, and working with Equestrian companies to re-establish arms production. She also reins in the Changeling garrison there, having the option to shoot down the hanging of an Equestrian prankster to just 6 months of community service as well as a horribly thought-out campaign to discredit Celestia.

After that, 3 things can happen. Either Lilac fails to keep the peace and the Equestrian Liberation Front rises (which only really happens if you let it by not getting enough garrisons) or the resistance and her end up in a stalemate, where she can decide to gamble by baiting the resistance out by sending Manehattan into chaos. While the other Changelings and even the game call this insane, this actually ends up working as planned, with the Resistance gaining a massive debuff, giving the Changelings a much better chance at beating them.

If Lilac succeeds at stabilizing Manehattan, she can either remain loyal (which doesn’t have any content right now) or slowly break free from Chrysalis. As she asserts Manehattan’s independence through growing autarky and military force, she also ends up slowly growing attached to it and its inhabitants, to the point where she makes moves to re-establish pony rights and create a lasting pony-changeling friendship within her borders. While she still rules as pretty much a dictator and denies going soft, she ends up being accepted (if reluctantly) by the ponies as their new leader.

How are they Magnificent?

While she’s not quite Affably Evil, her events portray her as more down-to-earth and sane than the rest of the Changeling administration. She also manages to separate her nation from Chrsyalis right under her nose, until her military force is too strong to be worth fighting. And even when she find herself in a stalemate, she manages to practically make a win for her superiors by weakening the resistance.

How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?

Willing to work for Chrysalis and takes harsh measures in cracking down on the Equestrian resistance. But she can eventually grow a heart and is more reasonable than the other Changelings.

Final verdict?

Yes, and we might need to create a separate page for Equestria At War’s Magnificent Bastards at this rate.

Simultaneously hands-on and hands-off with my life.
OrrorSANESS Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#1646: Feb 13th 2023 at 2:41:09 PM

(Check out Han's page in Page 367, here! Thanks Ravok.)

Edited by OrrorSANESS on Feb 13th 2023 at 3:10:14 AM

OrrorSANESS Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#1648: Feb 13th 2023 at 2:55:23 PM

I'm not willing to upvote an MB whose entire credentials are "not being as bad a military dictator as the other military dictators", sorry

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#1649: Feb 13th 2023 at 2:57:25 PM

Yeah uh no to Han. Alot of that expand the Sinocentric order comes off as unsettling....

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#1650: Feb 13th 2023 at 2:58:10 PM

Also, that is fifth effortpost this page. Only 4 are allowed per page, so I'd suggest removal of it, and reposting on the next page.

Nay to the latest Xenoblade and switching to the same on Matilda, Lilac and Victor I'll give tentative Yes to.

Edited by Ravok on Feb 13th 2023 at 2:59:43 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!

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