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Magnificent Bastard Proposal Thread

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Old Magnificent Bastard thread

Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

How are they Magnificent?

This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.

How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?

What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.

This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:34:22 PM

Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#15727: Aug 28th 2024 at 6:55:48 PM

[tup] for Mr. Kovalsky, Hipporito, Leone Abbachio, Anthony Geiger, Marvin Caul, New Sun and Cloak-Bot.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#15728: Aug 28th 2024 at 7:06:21 PM

Loopmancer is a Roguelite Hack and Slash Actioner developed by Beijing's eBrain Studios, set in Hong Kong in 2046 where it's been renamed "Dragon City".


The Player Character, Xiang Zixu is a supercop, private dick, and partially a cyborg... his body was rebuilt after nearly dying in an "accident" staged by his enemies five years ago, which removed his left arm, both legs, killed his daughter and snapped his wife's spine leaving her confined to a wheelchair. But thanks to nanotechnology implanted in Zixu's cranium, he can perform Mental Time Travel besides having the ability to kick ass, and he's investigating Tompson Technologies, an Evil Corp running some shady businesses...

Now, the scummy triad leader Disc-One Final Boss, Wei Long, responsible for ruining Zixu's life - and that of an entire village besides countless others, as revealed in a cutscene shortly after his death - is an approved Complete Monster. But there's at least one side-villain worth considering for the sister trope, MB.


——

On the trail of Tompson's ilicit activities, Zixu's investigations led him to Kouga Industries, a Tokyo company whose Dragon City branch hides some secrets. Zixu infiltrates the building, fights through its robot security to enter its vaults, and reaches the penthouse level where someone is waiting to challenge him.

The challenger? Hiroyuki Ogata (and YES he looks just like Hiroyuki Sanada), and he's been anticipating Zixu.


Who is Hiroyuki Ogata?

Grandson of Kouga Industries' founder Shizue Ogata, Hiroyuki is the company's CEO and Head of Security, well aware Zixu is investigating his company.

Introduced clad in a yukata calmly sipping green tea in the penthouse's traditional Japanese-style indoor garden, as Zixu steps in Hiroyuki reveals his intentions to challenge Zixu to a Sword Fight while his words oozes of Villain Respect; Zixu accepts and turns out underneath his robes, Hiroyuki is a Cyber Ninja who puts up one hell of a fight, even capable of unleashing burning sword beams... his first battle is a Time-Limit Boss, where Zixu must whittle Hiroyuki's health within a given time limit.

If Zixu survive the initial confrontation, in the following cutscene Hiroyuki declares himself the duel's loser and immediately prepares to seppuku, before his grandmother Shizue steps in telling Hiroyuki to stop - Zixu interrogates the Ogatas and his search ends up empty, but he just made himself a Worthy Opponent to Hiroyuki who now craves a rematch.

Zixu, after the Tang Hotel stage, avenges his family by killing Wei Long, and extracts an important MacGuffin from Wei Long where all of Tompson's deals comes to light; that Wei Long's working for Tompson and helping the company abduct thousands of people to be experimented upon for the company's research. As Hiroyuki makes a return, intending to re-reclaim the MacGuffin to prevent Zixu from exposing Tompson... the game kind of branches in two from that point.


First route leads to Zixu confronting Hiroyuki in an oil rig - Hiroyuki had abducted Song Wenjun, Zixu's wheelchair-restricted wife, in exchange for the MacGuffin, but the cutscene where he speaks to Wenjun is all kinds of Affably Evil:

"Apologies, madam, I'll order my men to take you back. Your husband will battle with me. Last time I lost, I owe him one. This time I will win."


Zixu fights his way through Hiroyuki's legion of cyber-ninjas, eventually made it to the rig's platform where Hiroyuki is waiting with Wenjun; Hiroyuki promises he'll let Wenjun leave unharmed and battle Zixu in a Duel to the Death... if Zixu wins, turns out Hiroyuki is a man of his words, Wenjun is back in her apartment without a scratch after all.


Second route allows Zixu to confront the Greater-Scope Villain, Dr. Song Boyong (discussing him later), without getting his wife involved... in the final confrontation, Dr. Song is in the middle of a Motive Rant before Hiroyuki suddenly appears, skewers Song In the Back and becomes the Final Boss. Hiroyuki's far more dangerous after upgrading himself, and after an insanely tough Sword Fight Zixu defeats him with a You Are Already Dead - realizing Zixu won, Hiroyuki lets out a smirk and collapses.


——

Is he Magnificient?

CYBER. NINJA. Who can spam burning Sword Beams, Wall Crawl, and one heck of a Master Swordsman.

That aside, Hiroyuki needs to be fought at least twice regardless the routes chosen, both his confrontations' difficult as heck. His debut depicts him as a calm, classy warrior slowly sipping tea before drawing his katana, yet is enough of a Graceful Loser when beaten, genuinely respects his grandmother Shizue as well as being loyal to Kouga Industries. All the possible routes leading to his defeat is a Sword Fight where his demise(s) are just collapsing over, nothing embarassing.


——

Bastard? Too much fo a Bastard?

Not as much as the rest of Tompson's co-conspirators; Hiroyuki is a Challenge Seeker itching for a fight, and isn't involved as much in Tompson's activities. He Face Death with Dignity in all his endings and displays all sorts of Villain Respect.

That said, he did abduct Zixu's wife for the rematch, and in the second ending killed the Greater-Scope Villain Dr. Song Boyong In the Back (he won't do this to Zixu due to honor and wanting a fair rematch). Yeah... there's another villain who was supposed to be EP'd but:

    Dr.Song Boyong 

  • The GSV, Dr. Song Boyong, is an Evil Genius whose wife, Dr. Yang Hui-jian, used to be one of Tompson's lead researchers before she found out the truth behind their experiments and was killed for it. Discovering Yang's death isn't an accident, Song pretends to be in the dark while dragging out a long-term plan to avenge his wife by later taking over the company and slaughtering their Board of Directors, before using Tompson's tech to hold the lives of 1 million people hostage, which would drag the company's name through the mud.
  • I'm not sure if Dr. Song could be considered this trope, though... his endgame involves him colluding with the Complete Monster, Wei Long, allowing a whole village put through Body Horror-inducing experimentations. While it's all done for avenging a loved one, it might be too much for MB. Not sure how to process this one tbh, but if anyone wants a look...


Is Hiroyuki Ogata a MB then?

Consider the irony that for a game made in Beijing, the most prominent Japanese villain is a Challenge Seeker Noble Demon instead of a CM...


Thepenguinking2 The Zangoose nobody likes from A secret base on Route 114 (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Saddled with unnecessary feelings
The Zangoose nobody likes
#15729: Aug 29th 2024 at 1:35:11 AM

I'm gonna abstain on Hiroyuki Ogata for now. Mainly, I'm not sure if his attempted Seppuku would push him out of the magnificence zone or not.

Also I dunno if this is the right topic for this kind of suggestion (The cleanup thread doesn't seem to be the best topic for this either), but I suggest that DreamWorks Animation gets a Magnificent Bastard subpage. I combed through all their works and have counted 28 different MBs, likely more when accounting for licensed games and ones that I may have missed. I think that's enough to warrant a subpage, even if it's for a company rather than a single franchise.

Hello! My Name Is Inigo Montoya. I made the Mimic. It was difficult to put the pieces together.
Dude-of-Wealth-And-Taste (Apprentice) Relationship Status: Become a part of me!
#15730: Aug 29th 2024 at 1:47:15 AM

The sepekku is done as an honorable process of accepting his loss, and is quick to abandon such desires later judging from the EP. I'm fine with it. [tup] to Ogata.

Edited by Dude-of-Wealth-And-Taste on Aug 29th 2024 at 12:48:41 PM

Till all are one.
Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#15731: Aug 29th 2024 at 2:49:52 AM

I have another candidate, and this time I'm going back to my roots, to the very first work I proposed an MB candidate for.

What is the work?

The work is Guardians, Wizards, and Kung-Fu Fighters, a crossover between Jackie Chan Adventures and W.I.T.C.H. that, at least in my opinion, gets the Dark Fantasy genre right. I've already gotten two characters on the MB list from there, Charles Ludmoore and Harold Hale.

And after re-reading it recently, I think there's a third character who ought to get an EP. Charles Ludmoore is a very impressive schemer, to be sure, but he doesn't work alone. He has two partners in his scheming, namely his equally cunning brothers, Cedric and Cyrus.

I'm still thinking about whether to EP Cedric now or wait and hope Book 2 actually gets written and the fic hasn't been abandoned. As for Cyrus...

Who is Cyrus Ludmoore? What has he done?

Cyrus is the youngest of the three brothers Ludmoore, and Charles's Agent Provocateur within the Rebellion. When the Rebellion first started, Cyrus took on the identity of "Drake" and joined the Rebellion. Cyrus's skill as a tactician ensured that "Drake" quickly climbed the ranks until he became one of Julian's top lieutenants.

In this position, Cyrus influenced the Rebellion in whatever way was most beneficial for the Ludmoore family's Long Game. And he was good at it, too; not one of the major figures within the Rebellion ever suspected him of being anything other than a loyal rebel, not even Nerissa. No one even suspects that "Drake" feels anything but disdain for Ludmoore, courtesy of a group of rebels killed that "Drake" didn't have enough payment to get Ludmoore to save.

As a strategist for the Rebellion, "Drake" is highly effective. Nerissa considers him an indispensable asset, and we do get to see some of his acumen, with him planning out several traps that Phobos's minions walk right into, even using himself as bait. Unfortunately, it's not all courage and heroism; "Drake" wasn't the one who came up with the idea of putting Carhaiz to the torch to keep the smallfolk from having a hope of living outside of Phobos's rule without fighting for the Rebellion, but he was complicit all the same.

Still, we, the audience, don't find out that "Drake" isn't who he seems until the Siege of Torus Filney. As the rebels put the guns they bought from Bartholomew Cheng to use, "Drake" smuggles the Guardians and Jade into the city, and the seven of them go to remove the monster that blocks the rebels' intended way into the city. "Drake" gives an apology to the soldier standing guard before throwing him into the monster's maw. He then has Taranee signal the rest of the rebels by blowing up the city's gunpowder storage.

In the battle, "Drake" crosses swords with Lothar, one of the commanders of Phobos's army. "Drake" had known him during the time he had spent in Phobos's guard to establish a cover identity. Here's one of the few miscalculations Cyrus makes: he didn't realize how much he was pissing Lothar off. Lothar is the overly-honorable type, and "Drake's" talk of "necessary sacrifices" inspired him to fight dirty enough to win the fight. The only reason Cyrus was able to survive with his cover intact was because Lothar thought he didn't deserve an honorable death on the battlefield.

After the battle, "Drake" tells Taranee and Caleb some hard truths they needed to hear: that you can't win a war without getting your hands dirty, and that fighting for a noble goal doesn't make thieves and killers good men, nor does fighting for an unworthy goal make good men as evil as their Prince.

Later, in a meeting of the rebels' Small Council, Vathek asks "Drake" why he fights for the Rebellion. Cyrus answers that he thinks the problem is not the man sitting on the throne in the castle, but the throne and castle themselves; he thinks the solution is that they should not even exist. And he lets a hint slip, confirmed in the flashback chapter about Jonathan Ludmoore, that he's not talking about the castle in Meridian's capital; the goal of the Ludmoore family is to overthrow Kandrakar.

When Charles Ludmoore offers to join the Rebellion, "Drake" votes in favor of letting him, then when Aldarn blows up over the decision, he asks the other members of the Small Council how they voted, revealing to Caleb that Aldarn had actually voted in favor of letting Ludmoore join to give himself an excuse to duel Caleb, in order to move the disunity away from the issue of Ludmoore. (Also, in private, Cyrus plays a joke on Charles by giving him spoiled wine.)

Later, Cyrus accompanies Caleb, Charles, and several other rebels to an illegal weapons deal in an abandoned warehouse, which he finds totally cliché. He does take a moment to feel some sympathy for the pain Caleb has been going through; regardless of how he has manipulated them, his friendship with many of his fellow rebels wasn't completely fake.

A bit later on, Cyrus and Charles help Caleb and Blunk start a slave revolt in the Underwater Mines (Cyrus especially enjoys that he gets to disguise himself as a guard to break in while his older brother has to disguise himself as a slave). They get found out because of a Passling slaver who realizes that Caleb and Cyrus aren't guards, but "Drake" does end up finding Julian in the resulting chaos.

When a turn of bad luck ends with Cedric being captured by the Rebellion, "Drake" seemingly helps the Mage pressure him into making a deal for information in exchange for Cedric not being executed. Cyrus, Charles, and Miranda know the Mage's promise is an empty one, but they decide it doesn't change their immediate course of action, reasoning that Caleb and Elyon will have other concerns that will take priority over Cedric's execution once Phobos is defeated, and they'll be in a better position to keep him from being executed. And if his execution becomes inevitable, they'll accelerate The Plan.

When the rebels attack the capital, the plan hits another speed bump. Phobos succeeds in stealing the Heart of Meridian from Elyon, and Cyrus and Charles realize that the situation has, for the first time in the story, fallen out of their control. Cyrus knows they have no choice but to attack the capital, but not wanting to get all of his men killed, he asks his brother for permission to use his Shapeshifter form if necessary. Charles gives him permission if he has no other choice.

Cyrus realizes as the rebels march into the capital that the situation is about as bad as it could be. After some stressful thinking, he decides to order Charles to teleport into the castle and help the Guardians and their allies, while the rebels help the Guard fight off the army of plant monsters Phobos created to scourge the Capital. Slipping into an empty house, he changes into his Shapeshifter form to fight more effectively.

When the battle is over, Cyrus shifts back, making sure to kill the two soldiers who saw him do so. He and Charles acknowledge that they have salvaged the situation as best they can, and they're both in a good position to continue to affect Meridian's future, though they'll still need to find an opportunity to free Cedric. With their mother having already given up her life for The Plan, they don't want to sacrifice any more family.

And with it having been a year and twelve days since the last chapter was dropped, that's where we leave off.

Magnificent?

Compared to Charles, Cyrus comes up a bit short. He makes a few mistakes that Charles probably wouldn't have, and he gets stressed a bit more easily. But I don't think it's fair to hold that against him when Charles is the MB who could not possibly be more Magnificent. Cyrus still puts on a strong showing, being such a good actor that no one in the Rebellion ever suspected he wasn't what he seemed, and having an excellent strategic acumen. And even when Cyrus does get stressed, he's still thinking clearly and looking for a solution, not panicking or breaking down. And the fact that he's the most reasonable member of the Rebellion's leadership even after we find out that he's The Mole...says as much about the Rebellion as it does Cyrus, but it still helps him maintain his magnificence.

And if you're concerned that Charles being in charge is an issue, don't. Charles trusts his brothers to act as they see fit most of the time, with him only directing the key steps of the plan.

Bastard? Too much?

He is manipulating a war for his own ends, knowing plenty of innocent people will die as a result, some killed by him personally.

But he isn't too bad. It's all for a goal that he thinks will be good for the Known Worlds. Plus he genuinely loves his brothers, and he does feel some genuine friendship for many of his fellow rebels despite manipulating them.

Verdict?

I think he's good.

Edited by Critica7 on Aug 29th 2024 at 7:38:28 AM

Check out my current fanfiction project.
LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime Raz (Season 2) Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#15734: Aug 29th 2024 at 7:46:01 AM

Yes to Geiger, Caul, New Sun, Cloak-Bot and Hiroyuki. Not sure on Cyrus, he might be fine but the way you just emphasized issues he's prone to the other keepers lack makes me pause. What puts him on equal footing to his brother? We'd want someone who stands out alongside Charles, not a kinda smart underling.

I don't think Dreamworks needs its own page, franchises within are distinct from each other.

On the note of pages, do we want to make Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fairy Tail? There was an issue with an attempt to force rewrites but that got fixed and it currently has seven keepers to a single page, which is awkward. Anyone wanna draft a description and quote?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#15735: Aug 29th 2024 at 8:01:34 AM

[tup]Hiroyuki and cloak bot

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#15736: Aug 29th 2024 at 8:43:25 AM

Alright so after three days, he even still only ever got eight votes including me, but all said yes though so here's the writeup:

  • Honey, I Shrunk the Kids: "Honey, I'm Dreaming, But Am I?": Morpheus is "Master of the Dreamscape" and "Lord of all Nightmares" who is angered when Wayne Szalinski uses his latest invention—the Dream Scooter—to enter into son Nick's nightmare and end it for him. He first proves who he is to Wayne by putting him through two of his old nightmares—threatening a third one too—and then demands he not trespass again or else be trapped forever. Morpheus then threatens both Amy and Nick when the former uses the scooter as well—while being impressed about the way Amy manipulated the Dreamscape—and thus, makes the family afraid to sleep again out of fear that he'll get any of them if they do. He later takes Nick along with Wayne and wife Diane hostage in the Dreamscape while also forcing Amy to answer brain-teaser PSAT style questions for everyone's freedom too as the others are trapped in a giant hourglass filling with sand. By the end when Amy beats Morpheus and everyone is saved, he visits her in a daydream to gracefully congratulate and give her words of encouragement before the actual PSAT while also leaving her an hourglass as well as shaking the hand of his Worthy Opponent too.

Again, could I please get word on which way the episode title's written so that I know what to use? Thank you.

Could Bob the Goon and the Poodle Lady both count by the way? Each is a pretty effective Hyper-Competent Sidekick that don't fall into the same sadism traps as their bosses if memory serves correctly.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Aug 29th 2024 at 8:45:28 AM

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#15737: Aug 29th 2024 at 8:59:43 AM

[tup] Cyrus, Ogata

I'd heavily be against Bob for the trope, the guy gets killed by the Joker unceremoniously because the latter was annoyed.

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#15738: Aug 29th 2024 at 9:19:05 AM

Either ways, if anyone's curious about Hiroyuki's seppuku could be seen as disqualifying, here's the cutscene it happened note 

In the attached clip... Hiroyuki's tanto barely left its sheathe before Shizue interrupts him, so nope, nothing too embarrassing here

Edited by RobertTYL on Aug 30th 2024 at 12:19:48 AM

Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#15739: Aug 29th 2024 at 10:16:30 AM

So... onto the last of the great Gambit dive.

Remy LeBeau would be the first to tell you that life, like the cards, is wild. Sometimes, you get to be a hero. But we all remember that saying about dying a hero... and what happens when a hero lives long enough?

Who is Death?
During the late 2000s' X-Men run, Gambit makes a risky gamble: He willingly submits himself to be made a Horseman of Apocalypse. While Gambit presumes he can combine the power boost and his close position to Apocalypse to help the X-Men, he finds himself having overestimated everything; though a solid part of Gambit maintains control over the entity born "both Death and Gambit," it isn't long before Apocalypse irons out Death's love for Rogue. Apocalypse is defeated soon after and Death is abducted by Sunfire, who persuades him to pursue an attack on the X-Mansion where Death deliberately targets Rogue, wanting to eliminate the biggest potential threat to Death's attack—Gambit's love. Though the invasion is foiled and Sinister visits, eventually restoring Gambit to his normal self, Death isn't quite done.

During a later story, Gambit is attacked by a low-level telepath. Though Gambit resists and warns the telepath, he ends up dealing with a psychic attack where his enemy finds a "curious" detail to rip out and let run free. Quickly learning that Evil Is Not a Toy, the telepath realizes his mistake only after Death re-emerges and traps him in a playing card before reverting to his typical form, biding his time within Gambit's body. Death's big reappearance, however, comes in the form of the Hellbound story. When an X-Men team makes an incursion to rescue Magik from Limbo, Gambit ends up caught amid the battle—and something else comes out. When one of his teammates screams for Remy's help, she receives a horrific response:

Remy's not home right now.

Though the demons of Limbo believe they can end Death then and there, they find themselves quickly and fiercely outmatched as Death declares that he is the one hunting them, emerging with a decapitated head and seizing control of a demonic host before using a previously unseen ability—presumably an upgrade of his Hypnotic Charm—to instantly brainwash Northstar and Dazzler into his loyal minions. The X-Men are forced to work together to defeat him as he makes his bid for Limbo's leadership and nearly succeeds, even showing some Villain Respect toward his enemies when they manage to genuinely anger him. When he's brought down by their combined efforts and Gambit is reverting to his original form, Death accepts his defeat calmly, delivering a foreboding promise in but a single word:

SOON.

Though determined not to be an immediate threat with his goal solely being to escape his entrapment within Gambit's mind, Death makes one more major appearance in 2022's Knights of X. When Gambit temporarily dies in another dimension, the resurrection of him first manages to revive Death. Death introduces himself by offering his former teammates the opportunity to become his minions before putting up a formidable fight, even methodically hurling cards to destroy the castle in which they're fighting and ensure Gambit can't be resurrected as himself. In the end, Death only reverts to Gambit when there's a sudden rescue not only by Sunfire but by Rogue herself, who's come to save her husband.

Is Death magnificent?
Despite Death actually having very limited appearances, he's a beloved character for a reason—though his initial showing while he's still partially Gambit is pretty unimpressive, he becomes much deadlier once he's Gambit's Enemy Within. Every time he awakens turns the story he's in into a horror film in which he is the villain; in his most famous outing, he wastes no time and almost takes Limbo for himself, even taking two other Mutants as his powerful minions while instantly forging a presence among demons and cowing them with his strength. He's established as a deadly tactical fighter who takes lethal advantage of his upgraded powers and doesn't play around—I'd particularly note him trying to kill Rogue immediately to make sure Gambit can't take advantage of his love for her to hold him back—while still being capable of Villain Respect and who has the same wit, snarky personality and charm as normal Gambit. Not to mention he's calculating and willing to wait, even concluding one of his defeats by just saying Soon.

Is Death bad?
So, initially, Death had the excuse of being brainwashed and "just" an altered personality for Gambit... it's made pretty damn clear by Hellbound that Death is its own individual entity who even openly refuses to be referred to as Remy and has goals Gambit would never even consider like conquering Limbo because he believes he's worthy of it. Death definitely has aspects of Gambit's personality but he's a villain through and through; while Rogue can bring Gambit back to control of the body, Death himself explicitly has had any love for her removed and he's happy to kill and brainwash his way to victory, even deliberately targeting Rogue to ensure Gambit can't hold him back again when they storm the mansion.

That said, I think it's obvious that Death's pretty standard on the tier list of Marvel villains' wickedness, and he's even given a tiny bit of pathos when it's acknowledged that his actual ultimate goal is to escape imprisonment in Gambit's mind; he's evil by choice and has his own goals, but he didn't choose to be stuck in Gambit's body and wants out.

Conclusion?
Oui.

Edited by Riley1sCool on Aug 29th 2024 at 10:16:42 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#15740: Aug 29th 2024 at 10:18:23 AM

[tup] Cyrus and Death

It's Spooky Month!
Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#15742: Aug 29th 2024 at 10:23:06 AM

[tup]Death.

BTW speaking off the Horseman. Is Archangel worth a shot?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#15743: Aug 29th 2024 at 10:24:05 AM

He'd be a sizable dive but I absolutely think Archangel would be worth a shot, yes.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Bozzy Since: Feb, 2023
#15745: Aug 29th 2024 at 12:00:48 PM

[tup] Death

RE: Batman. I don't think the Poodle Lady really...does anything. She's also in on the plan to abduct and murder children down to the infants, so even if she's not shown being sadistic herself, I think that's a bit of a non-starter

TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#15746: Aug 29th 2024 at 12:08:10 PM

[tup] for Hiroyuki Ogata, Cyrus Ludmoore and Death.

I would be fine with a Fairy Tail page, unfortunately I don't really know anything about the series so I can't help with a description or quote, sorry.

Edited by TurlesTheVegan on Aug 29th 2024 at 3:12:23 PM

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
Paperfly Buzz from On The Wall Since: Jun, 2022
Buzz
#15747: Aug 29th 2024 at 12:55:53 PM

Some months ago, I proposed two characters from Battle for Dream Island, both contestants. A third character, this time a host, was brought to my attention, so he's my next proposal.

The Candidate

The Announcer was the host during Season 1. He tells the objects about the titular "Dream Island", and the winners of the first challenge (Leafy and Pin) select the teams. The season doesn't have much of a plot, and the Announcer mainly hosts Cake at Stake and makes sarcastic remarks.

However, the last few episodes have a few relevant things happen - the biggest one being the Season winner Firey banning Leafy from the island. Infuriated, she calls the Announcer and buys Dream Island herself. The other objects find out about this and chase her out. This money allows him to fund BFDIA

He makes small cameos throughout the season, till episode 6. After nearly being caught the previous episode, he makes Firey Speakerbox (the then host) disguise himself so that the contestants think that the Announcer they saw was actually FSB in disguise. Then he is never seen again, and he leaves Earth believing that his project was cancelled...

Until BFB 28, when he returns much to the surprise and delight of the final four. He demands to know what happened to to his show, and when Four (the season host) proudly states that he took it over in his absence and did a good job, the Announcer states that they're wrong - between X quitting hosting for a round, Four losing 40 contestants, having a "purple nuisance" (Purple Face) that they can't get rid of, and letting random characters join the game, Announcer accuses Four and X of having lost all control and decides that he's taking over from here. Four tries to call him out on this, but upon seeing the remaining contestants fawn over Announcer, they realize that the show really has gone off the rails, and sinks into the ground.

Announcer hosts Cake at Stake and brings back the eliminated contestants so they can help with the Final Challenge. He notices that Four and X have been rather careful with regards to the budget, so he uses it to buy props so that the contestants can go through all of the challenges all over again. However, the stinger sees the Announcer splurge money from the show's budget, including giving Flower $50,000. Taco calls him out on this, and when she goes to tell X about this, he obliterates her with a laser.

In BFB 29 (SOS (Save Our Show)), Announcer continues splurging the budget, and after Cake at Stake, he tells the Final Two that BFB is cancelled due to him spending too much of the budget. While the remaining contestants are off to raise money to save the show, Taco stays behind to watch the Announcer as he starts digging the ground in search for something. He eventually digs out the BFDI and BFB (the Prizes), and Taco catches him in the act. He attempts to zap her again but she broke the laser. Announcer eventually decides to explain his true intentions to Taco.

After BFDI ended, the Announcer wanted BFDI to continue, and the money he got from Leafy's purchase of Dream Island allowed him to do this. He collected votes for another season, laid out the ground rules, and set up the challenge wheel, but he had to keep spending on prizes due to the contestants dying excessively. He managed to stay incognito, but after BFDIA was "cancelled", he decided to return home... till he was suddenly caught off guard by another season of BFDI (BFB). Upon seeing Four set up his BFDI as the prize, he waited until the cast dwindled to return to Earth, and he felt that the final four seemed like the right time to him, since he would barely get any push back.

The scenery then drops in quality due to the budget getting depleted, and just when it seems that BFB will be deleted, Flower gives up her $50,000 to save the show. In the next (and final) episode, The Announcer hosts the final Cake at Stake, giving Flower the Grand Cake and the BFB. However, he is hesitant to give Flower his BFDI. Then Purple Face knocks both both of them out of the way and steals it.

Purple Face tries escaping in a bus, but the Have Nots and the Announcer catch up to him. As everyone fights over the BFDI, the bus ends up going over a cliff, dangling over the edge. Everyone except for Flower, Purple Face, and The Announcer get out, as they are fighting over the prize. When Purple Face tells Announcer to get his own copy, the latter drops this bombshell - the BFDI they are fighting over is the only remaining copy of the show.

The Announcer is eventually willing to relinquish ownership of the BFDI since Flower won it fair and square, but Flower counters by saying that she doesn't want it anymore, and lets Announcer have it.

They get out of the bus, and by this point, the Have Cot's have finished their subplot with Four. Four thanks Announcer for taking care of the end of the season and apologizes for taking the show but Announcer responds by saying that without Four, there wouldn't have been another season and the original seasons wouldn't have been backed up. The epilogue sees Announcer making plans for a new season with Four, X, and Purple Face.

Magnificence

Season 1 Announcer is snarky, has poor budget management skills, and tends to make fun of the misfortune of others, but Season 4 is more manipulative, exploiting the contestants excitement over his return to take over Four's season and deplete the budget without raising any suspicion, all to regain possession of his life's work. It is also revealed that he funded BFDIA from the shadows, leaving in the 5th episode after almost being caught in the episode prior.

He almost succeeds in his goal, only being thwarted because Flower used money that Announcer gave her to save the show. Despite being unwilling to give up the BFDI at first, he acknowledges that Flower earned it fair and square, and ends the season on good terms with Four and open to co-hosting a Season 6 with him.

Bastardry

Announcer in Season 1 is Chris Mc Lean but dark grey and metallic, and in season 4, his entire goal is to steal a prize that the contestants were fighting over for 4 years. He also kills Taco when she gets suspicious of him. In addition, him wasting the budget nearly results in BFB being wiped out of existence.

Image Pickin' Backlog
Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#15748: Aug 29th 2024 at 1:29:06 PM

There is one thing I can say about Cyrus compared to Charles: He actually seems to be better at improvising when the situation is at its most unfavorable. When they attack the capital and find Phobos's army of plant monsters fighting the Guard, Charles doesn't know what to do. Cyrus is the one who cones up with a plan. That should help, if you're iffy on Cyrus because of how he compares to his brothers.

Check out my current fanfiction project.
GoSweetToday The Contract Freeloader from New York Since: Aug, 2024 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
The Contract Freeloader
#15749: Aug 29th 2024 at 1:32:22 PM

Edit: Placeholder. Abstain on the Announcer. From what I can recall, doesn't the Announcer have a sadistic streak. He literally bought personal recovery centers for Leafy, Bubble, and Fiery so he can kill them as many times as he wants.

Edited by GoSweetToday on Aug 29th 2024 at 4:49:14 AM

Sometimes the risk is worth taking before the fall.
TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#15750: Aug 29th 2024 at 1:44:21 PM

There's a limit of four EPs per page, please blank it and repost it next page (which will be the next post thankfully).

[tup] for the Announcer.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.

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