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Magnificent Bastard Proposal Thread

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Old Magnificent Bastard thread

Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

How are they Magnificent?

This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.

How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?

What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.

This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:34:22 PM

PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#8176: Aug 30th 2023 at 2:42:31 PM

The third has actually been suggested on the Image Suggestion Thread. It’s not on a crowner yet, but it’ll be on the next one unless a thread is made.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#8177: Aug 30th 2023 at 2:44:27 PM

[up] Ah perfect, I can wait to see how that one turns out. Thanks for letting us know!

@mir: I dig the quote!

In the meantime, since we got us a new page...

Next from Red (2010), specifically the sequel.

Who is Edward Bailey? What makes him a candidate?

  • Played by Anthony Hopkins, Edward Bailey is a seeming Cloudcuckoolander and ally to the RED team but is actually the main villain of the flick.
  • Years ago during the Cold War, the genius scientist Bailey developed "Nightshade", a powerful bomb capable of heavy decimation which was to be used against Russia. When British Intelligence decided to not use Nightshade, they betrayed Bailey and locked him away for decades in an insane asylum because he wanted to set off his device; during this time imprisoned, Bailey's wife and young son died under suspicious circumstances, Bailey attributing it to the government.
  • In the present, Bailey schemes revenge. He uses a stolen cell phone from a guard to leak a forged file on Nightshade to WikiLeaks, framing Frank Moses and his team as knowing its location. He deliberately leaves enough breadcrumbs for Frank to track him down at the asylum and free him, convincing Frank that he's a wee bit loony but otherwise eager to help. Bailey reveals he hid Nightshade's parts deep inside the Kremlin itself years ago, knowing the Russians would never think to look under their own noses. Once he has reclaimed Nightshade, Bailey reveals he ratted Frank out to the CIA and bloodthirsty agent Jack Horton, who quickly have Frank and his team arrested while they secure Bailey and Nightshade.
  • Horton betrays Bailey and locks him up on their plane; Bailey predicted this and smuggled nerve gas into his shoe, which he unleashes in the plane and kills everyone except for Horton, who he spares only long enough to reveal his goal: under the lie of "handing it off" to the Iranian embassy in London, Bailey actually sets Nightshade to go off on a timer. He plans to destroy all of London as payback for stealing him from his family, delivered in a great Motive Rant:
    "Yes, it's a sad old world, you know. Anyway, that's only my opinion. But the central point is this, Jack. You see, when men like you and those dickheads from MI 6 or CIA or whatever sewers you came from...When you take away not only my life, but the innocent lives of my dear beloved wife Natasha and my little boy, who was only six, you see...Yes. I mean, what can I say? When you mess with me, buddy, this is what you get."
  • When Frank and his team show up to stop the plan, Bailey takes Sarah hostage and forces her to drive him to an airport. Bailey hijacks a plane there, waiting for Frank to arrive with the Nightshade briefcase; he forces Frank to keep Nightshade with him on the ground while Bailey flees in the plane, handing over Sarah in exchange. As Bailey's plane flies away and Nightshade seems about to go off on the ground, he notices a ticking sound—he realizes too late that Frank snuck Nightshade on the plane during the hostage exchange. Bailey just laughs and cheerfully notes "Well, I didn't see that one coming." before he gets blown to bits.

Is he magnificent?

Yessir, Bailey is an immensely delightful old cook who Anthony Hopkins makes insanely entertaining. He goes from hilariously insane to a major menace in no time who is still more likable than Horton, and has a tragic reason for his crimes. Even when he realizes he's been outsmarted at the last second, Bailey takes it in stride.

Is he a bastard?

He's the most evil of any of the candidates who will come through, with a plot to blow up London and kill an estimated 11 million people all to punish the British government for turning on him in the Cold War and costing him his wife and child. He also murders Frank's close ally Katja to stall him, and takes Sarah as a hostage. He's a bad dude but he's got a genuine redeeming feature and sympathetic excuse that lightens what he's doing and he's so damn fun to watch that he never comes off as gross or overly nasty.

Edited by Ravok on Aug 30th 2023 at 2:47:39 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#8179: Aug 30th 2023 at 2:49:57 PM

[tup]Edward.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
227someguy I hate spoilers Since: Apr, 2017
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Splonk Harbinger of Cringe from Basement Since: Sep, 2022 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Harbinger of Cringe
#8183: Aug 30th 2023 at 5:03:17 PM

Okay, had to blank this EP the last time. Luckily now I actually get the chance to do it!

What is the work?

"Trouble" is an Among Us song created by HalaCG. It's a duet song between a crewmate and and imposter, with the crewmate's goal being to find and get the imposter voted out, while the imposter's job is to kill everyone on the Skeld without getting caught.

Who Are They? What Have They Done?

Hala CG, playing the role of imposter within this video, she is a strategic mastermind, managing to kill off several crewmates without being noticed all the while gloating about how easy it all is. Eventually, CG5, who plays the role of crewmate, tries to expose her for being the impersonator, however she ultimately turns it back on him, managing to get him voted out in the process, presumably winning the game afterwards.

Is She Magnificent?

I'd say so. She is a strategic manipulator who managed to go under the noses of every crewmate, killing them off one by one without being caught. And then, when one of them tries to expose her, she manages to convince the rest of the crew that he was the imposter, using the fact that he seemingly "waited for there to be three of them left". I guess you could argue she's a bit on the smug side, but for one, I feel she earns it considering how flawlessly she pulls off everyone, and two when it comes to actually defending herself, her smugness doesn't get in the way of pulling off a convincing bravado. She's a bit of a sadist, but not too much of one and it doesn't make her unlikable.

Is She a Bastard? Is She Too Much Of One?

Well she's a murderer who kills about six crewmates, one of them via getting them ejected into space. With that said, all of her kills are pretty standard for the setting, especially considering the song itself uses actual game footage, the most brutal kill we see her pull off is snapping Yellow's neck, which even then is quick is is only there for a few seconds, everything else is your run of the mill, chopping head off in a quick motion and not really being brutal about it. So no, I don't think she's too much of a bastard.

Verdict?

It's a yes from me, but I'll let you all decide.

My mere presence makes everyone's day worse.
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#8184: Aug 30th 2023 at 7:00:10 PM

Sure there!

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#8185: Aug 30th 2023 at 8:45:24 PM

[tup] HalaCG and Edward Bailey. Out of curiosity, does the movie ever give an explicit answer what happened to his family?

Amanofmanyinterests Gotta love Jaws! Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Gotta love Jaws!
#8186: Aug 30th 2023 at 8:59:55 PM

[tup] to Bailey and HalaCG.

Love the Luthor images, but third is the best imo!

Edited by Amanofmanyinterests on Aug 30th 2023 at 9:00:17 AM

"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#8187: Aug 30th 2023 at 9:43:55 PM

@HT: It does not, he references them a couple times throughout the film (such as being genuinely overjoyed when he recovers a pipe that his wife got him) and then delivers his Motive Rant where he mentions that the government "took away" the lives of his family, but there's no further detail given as to what, exactly, happened to them. Just that they're dead and Bailey blames MI6, specifically, for it.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#8188: Aug 31st 2023 at 6:47:36 AM

Yes to the Red Candidates - say, this was loosely based on a comic Ravok. You checking that out at all? Sorry if you've mentioned and I missed it.

Sure also to Hala.

Edited by PolarPhantom on Aug 31st 2023 at 6:48:03 AM

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#8189: Aug 31st 2023 at 9:30:37 AM

[tup] Edward and Hala.

  • The Sarah Connor Chronicles:
    • Cromartie is the most persistent and brilliant of the T-888 Terminators that Skynet sends into the past to ensure its rise. Introduced in the pilot posing as a teacher at John Connor's new school, Cromartie nearly kills John by smuggling in a gun hidden in his own skin, then pulls himself back together after being completely destroyed in order to continue the hunt. Cromartie proceeds to leave a trail of bodies as he creates a new human disguise, ruthlessly obtaining the needed resources and allowing his new identity to be cleared of suspicion before murdering and replacing him, all while picking up ways to further his pursuit by learning to impersonate FBI agents. Interrogating their associates and using whatever databases he can hack into to monitor the Connors' activates, Cromartie slowly but surely narrows down their location, drawing them out or chasing them down to repeatedly almost kill John. Even when he comes under scrutiny, Cromartie is able to effortlessly massacre his way through an FBI strike team, sparing only James Ellison so he can be used to track his targets—a strategy Cromartie is so convinced of that he even betrays Skynet to ensure Ellison's safety. A Determinator like no other, Cromartie proves himself to be one of the most deadly and nigh-unstoppable forces that John and Sarah ever come across.
    • Season 2: "Catherine Weaver" is a rogue T-1001 Terminator determined to bring down Skynet's cruel reign. Stealing the identity of a wealthy CEO, the T-1001 uses her company to begin combatting the robotic infiltrators sent into the past to crush the human Resistance. Weaver's shapeshifting abilities allow her to buy and ensure certain landmarks that will become integral to the Resistance stay intact from Skynet's interference, ruthlessly assassinating anyone who unwittingly impedes humanity's survival. Further employing former FBI agent James Ellison after convincing him that the real Weaver's husband was killed by a Terminator, Weaver has him hunt T-888 infiltrators and recover Cromartie's body, using it to house a new A.I., dubbed John Henry, engineered to fight its malevolent "brother." Despite her cold detachment in completing her mission, the T-1001 proves willing to try to understand humanity by attempting to serve as a loving mother to the real Weaver's daughter, all while brilliantly incorporating whatever lessons or resources she comes across in this endeavor to further John Henry’s benevolent development.
    • "Self Made Man": Myron Stark is a T-888 charged with assassinating the Governor of California at Pico Tower in 2010, only for a temporal error to send him to 1920 and accidentally kill the tower's constructor. Undeterred by this disastrous obstacle, Stark sets to building the tower himself and acquiring the needed land from the constructor's father, the wealthy land developer Rupert Chandler, by starting his own construction company. Orchestrating several bank robberies to fund his activities, Stark quickly builds up a massive business able to easily rival Chandler's own empire, treating all his workers fairly and paying double the normal wages to encourage productivity. Successfully driving Chandler to bankruptcy, Stark buys the land and constructs Pico Tower before hiding himself within its walls for decades, awaiting the day of the governor's predestined arrival in order to enact his assassination.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#8190: Aug 31st 2023 at 11:23:02 AM

Haven't thought about checking the comic yet, might have to at some point!

I have started a Image thread for Magnificent Bastard.Disney, anyone interested in voting go check it out!

5th from Red (2010), another sequel-only character:

Who is Han Cho Bai? What has he done?

  • Played by Lee Byung-hun, Han Cho Bai is a former Korean counter-intelligence agent turned "the best contract killer in the world", who is introduced meeting a potential client. He is ordered to stripe naked and only wear a robe for the meeting for safety reasons, and his client hands him a sheet of paper with the target he wants eliminated. Han listens to his client's instructions as he playfully folds the paper into origami shape, before responding: "Not a problem. Except for one thing. (Your target) pays better." to which Han uses the folded-up paper to lethally slash his client's neck, play it off in front of security cameras, and effortlessly leave the compound.
  • Han is personally contracted out to hunt down and kill Frank Moses and his team, Han relishing the opportunity thanks to Frank having helped lock him up many years ago. Han chases Frank's team throughout the film, ambushing them in the street with a minigun and dueling Frank in hand-to-hand combat in which they are damn near evenly matched; even when Frank handcuffs Han to a freezer door in time to escape, Han breaks it off and uses it as an improvised weapon to decimate an entire squad of cops that show up to the scene.
  • When Han finally catches Frank unaware and has him dead to rights, he is informed by Frank about Bailey's plot to set off Nightshade and kill millions. Han begrudgingly puts aside his feud with Frank and the hefty bounty to team up with Frank's team for the greater good, helping them infiltrate the Iranian embassy. He then personally works with Victoria to engage in a badass car chase with Bailey in which the duo wipe out multiple enemy vehicles without ever missing a beat in the car chase.
  • Once Bailey is incapacitated, Han parts ways with Frank's team...somewhat amicably, having a hilarious bit where he's so pissed that Frank cost him two private jets throughout the film that he demands Frank pay him back for both the planes, as well as the bounty he gave up, and that otherwise Han will come back for him.

Is he magnificent?

Hell yea, he's an uber-badass assassin who keeps pace with Frank and his team throughout the film and ultimately puts aside their differences to save the world. He's subject to some humor in that Frank keeps stealing and/or destroying his private planes which pisses Han off mightily, but it never impacts how brilliant and coolheaded he is.

Is he a bastard?

Contract killer with few scruples who spends the whole film trying to murder Frank and co., and beats the everloving shit out of multiple cops, but winds up helping save the entirety of London.

Edited by Ravok on Aug 31st 2023 at 12:17:01 PM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#8193: Aug 31st 2023 at 1:06:05 PM

[tup]Han.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#8195: Aug 31st 2023 at 1:28:08 PM

[tup]Edward and Han.

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#8196: Aug 31st 2023 at 1:30:26 PM

How many do you have left?

I know Ivan is pretty easy as well.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#8197: Aug 31st 2023 at 1:43:31 PM

Yeah Ivan is the last "rock-solid" keep, at which point I'll probably take a bit of a break from RED before trying the final 3—Joe, Cooper and "the Frog", all of whom I'm iffier on. But if someone gets to them before me, be my guest!

Edited by Ravok on Aug 31st 2023 at 1:50:56 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#8198: Aug 31st 2023 at 1:57:58 PM

Bit iffy on Edward given the heinousness of the plan... but the comedy and redeeming features are enough to offset. [tup] Edward, Han.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
ReddishGuy1 Since: Jul, 2014
#8199: Aug 31st 2023 at 2:40:44 PM

A little late to the party but [tup] to both Darth Jadus and TFP Megatron.

Did anyone reserve the new Touhou game or is that still up for grabs?

Just imagine something here.

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