Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:34:22 PM
Marvin, no to John.
- Gotham:
- Ra's
- Season 3 (Heroes Rise arc): The Sensei is the leader of the Court of Owls, managing the group of privileged families and their plan to destroy Gotham on behalf of Ra's Al Ghul. Responsible for creating the Court's unflinchingly loyal Talon assassins, the Sensei uses the same method by which these deadly soldiers are forged to mold Bruce into the perfect servant of the Demon's Head. Having the young Wayne abducted and replaced with a clone, the Sensei forces him to confront the trauma of his parents' murder and convinces him that his rage and pain are hindrances to his desire to save Gotham, guiding him in submitting to the Talons' brainwashing process so he can be reforged into a true protector. The Sensei, upon returning to Gotham, turns the Talons on the Court in revenge for the unapproved murders of Thomas and Martha Wayne, before releasing the Tetch Virus to see Gotham annihilated. Though killed in the process, the Sensei leaves Bruce instructions on how to find his master, loyally intent on seeing the young Wayne find his destiny and emerge as a hero from the ashes of his broken city.
- The rest
I'm thinking that Ashley Graydon's write-up could be shortened honestly, it also has a very large pothole to Xanatos Speed Chess.
- Crash Maul:
- Rise of the Epic Scout & The Fight for Sawmill: Matthew Bryce, once an ordinary BLU Scout, became something far greater after his dying body came into contact with alcohol and a can of Bonk!. Now "The Epic Scout," fully capable of super speed and intelligence, Bryce is able to take control of Watchtower by using the RED Team’s weapons against them to his advantage, while manipulating their Spy, Agent 35, into lowering his guard by stealing his Dead Ringer watch to help fake his death. Becoming the BLU Team’s best player as he leads them to several wins, Epic Scout is able to go toe-to-toe with the equally intelligent Cowboygineer and his pet Rabid Heavy, surviving their encounter and plotting payback.
- Meet The Rabid Heavy Taming Engineer & The Fight for Sawmill:
- The Cowboygineer is a RED Engineer who turned down from his profession to hunt down and tame the fabled Rabid Heavy. Successfully taming the beast to the point where he’s become his loyal pet, the Cowboygineer sends his pet out to steal BLU Team’s intelligence and retrieve the RED’s as well. An expert gunslinger as well, Cowboygineer is able to defeat incoming enemy fire from the BLUs with his gunplay and wits, his skills netting the cornered RED Team a successful win. Meeting his equal in the form of Epic Scout, the Cowboygineer ultimately comes out on top, while a bit saddened by his enemy’s supposed death.
- The Rabid Heavy is a wild animal whose feral brutality hides a cunning mind. Tamed by the Cowboygineer and displaying obedience toward his master, Rabid Heavy is sent to steal the BLU Team’s intelligence and retrieve the stolen RED’s as well. With bullets and stabbings doing nothing to slow him down, Rabid Heavy’s able to nab both intelligences and save his master from the BLU Sniper by bending his gun sideways before he could fire the fatal bullet. Getting into a confrontation with the Epic Scout and surviving one of his traps, Rabid Heavy wins the fight by punching the Scout into an exploding building, while still feeling sorrowful for his actions.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Aug 29th 2023 at 10:20:45 AM
It's Spooky Month!Yeah while I think John was worth discussion,I unfortunately do feel that he doesn't go quite far enough to be called bastard for an action franchise.
Third from Red (2010):
Who is Victoria Winslow? What makes her a candidate?
- Played by Helen Mirren, Victoria Winslow is a retired MI6 assassin and killer who is nonetheless so enamored by the thrill of her job that she continues to hire herself out as a freelance contract killer to those willing to pay, even as she maintains a Bed and Breakfast on the side
- When Frank Moses comes to her for aid, Victoria springs into action to help him infiltrate the home of Alexander Dunning, Victoria keeping her eyes peeled with a sniper rifle for incoming enemies. When the FBI and CIA pull up to arrest Frank, Victoria skillfully opens fire on them to distract them as Frank and his team escape, before Victoria goes along.
- During the infiltration of the VP's gala, Victoria disguises a chain inside a necklace and uses it to lock the main entrance to the gala, forcing the VP to flee through the back when Frank's team causes chaos. Victoria uses her looks and status as an "old woman" to get the drop on security and knock them out, then arming herself with a giant-ass heavy duty artillery gun and opening fire on the VP's security detail to further herd him into being entrapped by Frank.
- After the VP and Dunning are taken down, Victoria returns in the sequel once again, continuing her side job of assassination and shown cheerfully dissolving bodies in acid while offering relationship advice to Frank and Sarah. When she is hired to hunt Frank himself, Victoria seemingly accepts the job offer—but only so she help Frank by faking his team's death, after which she helps them track down the Nightshade bomb.
- Victoria further saves Frank, Marvin and others from death by using her sniper rifle to free them from chains and then kill multiple enemies, and at the end she participates in a long, badass car chase in which she skillfully wipes out multiple enemy vehicles while in the passenger seat of a speeding car. By the end, Victoria and Frank's team have stopped Nightshade, and she carries on her merry way.
Is she magnificent?
Yessir, badass Cold Sniper and Femme Fatale who exudes charm and cunning, and she not only plays heavy roles in Frank and Marvin's outings, but also has plenty solo showings of her own to establish how amazing she is.
Is she a bitch?
She's a hired killer who keeps multiple bodies in her freezer, dissolves corpses in acid, takes part in schemes that hurt and/or kill simple security guards doing their jobs, and when she first meets Sarah she very firmly informs her that if she ever breaks Frank's heart, Victoria will kill her without hesitation.
Edited by Ravok on Aug 29th 2023 at 12:20:58 PM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Aight writeup time. Yes I know it's a lengthy one but the guy does a lot and unlike say Soundwave who you can basically writeup as him being Hyper-Competent Sidekick incarnate, you sort of need context to help the writeup work if that makes sense?
- Megatron is the leader of the Decepticons who balances might with cunning to repeatedly orchestrate new schemes to aid him with his goals of conquest. Formerly known as a Kaon gladiator D-16, Megatron sought to shift a hierarchy balance within Cybertron—rallying up thousands of loyal troops to serve his cause. Formulating several schemes that conflict the Autobots, Megatron usually leaves the heroes with a narrow victory or an outright loss. With the resurrection of Unicron imminent, Megatron forms a truce with the Autobots to combat the Chaos Bringer—being completely honest that once the truce ends, the dynamic they have will return to normal. To combat Optimus' Star Saber, Megatron forges his own—grafting his arm with that of a Prime's to be able to wield it. Forging the Omega Lock, Megatron intends on using to restore Cybertron to allow the masses to return—with the restoration granting him the leadership of the planet. To combat the Primus and Unicron dynamic of only dominion over one planet, Megatron also has the Lock almost convert Earth—with the effect of wiping out all organic-based life. Despite losing the lock, Megatron manages to formulate an assault against the Autobot's base, leaving it in ruins and the Autobots disbanded. When Predaking reveals his sapience, Megatron concurs with his command staff that they are outnumbered by the Predacons, and terminates the Predacon pods with a scheme to frame the Autobots and enrage Predaking against them. Slain after coming within a breadths width of utilizing the Omega Lock's power, Megatron finds himself trapped as a puppet and vessel for Unicron. Desiring to thwart Unicron's quest of complete destruction, Megatron convinces him to approach Predaking under the pretence the beast will serve him—knowing that Predaking would attempt to destroy Megatron's body. Free from Unicron's control, Megatron dissolves the Decepticons--understanding the true meaning of oppression and thus losing the taste for conquest--before departing to parts unknown.
EDIT: Yes to Victoria and glad to hear it Bull! Nay to John unfortunately but great EP nevertheless Sky.
Edited by WetFlannels on Aug 29th 2023 at 10:04:01 AM
What's wrong D-16? Rise up!@43 How's this? Got it to 300.
- Megatron is the leader of the Decepticons who balances might with cunning to repeatedly orchestrate schemes for his goals of conquest. Formerly known as the Kaon gladiator D-16, Megatron sought to shift a hierarchy balance within Cybertron—rallying up thousands of loyal troops to serve his cause. Formulating several schemes that conflict the Autobots, Megatron usually leaves the heroes with a narrow victory or an outright loss. With the resurrection of Unicron imminent, Megatron forms a truce with the Autobots to combat the Chaos Bringer—being completely honest that it will be temporary and that their dynamic will return to normal. To combat Optimus' Star Saber, Megatron forges his own—grafting his arm with that of a Prime's to be able to wield it. Forging the Omega Lock, Megatron intends on using to restore Cybertron to allow the masses to return—with the restoration granting him the leadership of the planet. To combat the Primus and Unicron dynamic of only dominion over one planet, Megatron also has the Lock almost convert Earth—with the effect of wiping out all organic-based life. After losing the lock, Megatron formulates an assault against the Autobot's base, leaving it in ruins and the Autobots disbanded. When Predaking reveals his sapience, Megatron concurs with his command staff that they are outnumbered by the Predacons, and terminates the Predacon pods with a scheme to frame the Autobots and enrage Predaking against them. Slain after almost utilizing the Omega Lock's power and finding himself trapped as a vessel for Unicron's goal of destruction, Megatron convinces him to approach Predaking under the pretence of loyalty—knowing that Predaking would attempt to destroy Megatron's body. Free from Unicron's control, Megatron dissolves the Decepticons--understanding the true meaning of oppression and thus losing the taste for conquest--before departing to parts unknown.
to Victoria Winslow.
And my write up:
- FBI: Most Wanted: "Iron Pipeline": Joshua Fogelman was an ordinary suburban family man, until his nine-year-old daughter Mya was murdered in a mass shooting. Transformed into "a Man on fire" Joshua threw himself into ensuring this could never happen again. When his media campaign failed, Joshua turned to a more audacious plan. Tracking down an illegal gun dealer, Joshua bought an AR-15 and after doing his research travelled to a convention for the North-Eastern Rifle Federation. Patiently waiting for his opportunity, he infiltrated the convention and kidnaped the president at gunpoint, planning to force him to broadcast a picture of what the gunman did to Mya at the convention and force the members to confront the carnage they helped enable. Discovering the FBI had cancelled the convention and cornered by the feds, coming up with a a new plan on the spot, Joshua instead forcing him to upload the footage onto their social media feed. Succeeding, he surrendered finally letting the grief of his daughter’s death catch up with him.
Thoughts?

I think John is worth a discussion but I am ultimately a no on him. I think that he just missing a certain something to push him over.
Also hey guys. I'm back and finally in a house. So expect my promised eps soon.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread