TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Complete Monster Proposal Thread

Go To

Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

FlowerPicking Since: Feb, 2023 Relationship Status: A heart full of love
#21276: Jul 25th 2023 at 1:14:21 PM

[tup]Laufy, Breathing Man, and Freeman

MermaidEyes15 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
#21277: Jul 25th 2023 at 1:36:45 PM

Welp, for Black Mirror I guess it’s time to talk about one of two candidate. This guy can go either way but i think he barely etches through. Let’s talk about Kappa from Beyond The Sea, A tale on two astronauts, Cliff and David and one synthetic robot replicas.

Who is Kappa? What does he Do?

Kappa is the Greater-Scope Villain of the episode, who only appears for two scenes but the effects of his actions is felt. Kappa is a deranged hippie cult leader of his 3 other friends who despised technology and more specifically, David due to the fact he’s inhabiting a synthetic clone for most of the day while in space, seeing it as a crime against nature and local order.

During the middle of the night, Kappa breaks into David’s home and when David comes to investigate, him and his 3 friends hippy cult members are there to ambush him. They attack David and Kappa cuts off David’s arm (and it is shown that there is at least physical pain that they experience through the synthetic clone) before he hits him over the head with a hammer, temporarily short circuiting the system.

David, distraught, comes back to the synthetic replica, only to find himself tied up as his wife and two young children are surrounded. Despite begging from his wife that they are human, Kappa acknowledges it, however, says that due to them “pretending” to be a family, and his wife “lying in bed” with a metal man, makes him decide that’s enough to kill them. He then proceeds, while David watches, as he brutally butchers his family, smearing their blood on the walls even from the little we see of the gory details. A after the death of David’s family, Kappa sets his replica on fire, burning David alive until the wires give out and sends David back into consciousness in the space station, and Kappa and his 3 members turn themselves in after completing their mission. However, the damage has done as David is psychologically broken from the death of his family, and due to the loss of his synthetic clone, is stuck in space all alone for most days, which kickstart the conflict of the main story.

Mitigating Factors?

Nope, dude is just a delusional psychopath who despises David and sees the robotic replica and David’s family, who are human, as against nature.

Heinous Standard?

Things are a little tricky here. Now Murder is not too common in the show, not even child Murder due to Robert Daly. However, I think Kappa may push it. The more heinous individuals such as Wraith, Daly, Garret, Arqutte and Rolo have leagues above resources to Kappa (Wraith having more wealth and influence with his show Wraith Babes, Daly having complete control over his own simulation, Garret being an intelligence hacker with complete control over the Grain Bots, Arquette being a high ranking member of MASS, and Rolo being an intelligent engineer).

There is also the level of cruelty for Kappa I think helps push him. Not only does he force a man to watch as he brutally murders his wife and 2 children, he also sets David’s synthetic clone alive, which both acts as physical torture as he feels the pain of being burned alive as well as psychological torture, to which Kappa is AWARE of that due to him expressing joy on thinking on the Metal Man “screaming a thousand miles away up there” so he knows that David will be psychologically scarred from the actions and destroys his only synthetic clone, damaging his sanity for good. So, overall, I think Kappa’s currently pushes him through.

Verdict?

Hard to decide, gonna say yes, but I leave it up to you.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#21278: Jul 25th 2023 at 1:37:31 PM

[tup] To Laufey, Kappa and decided to vote for [tup] to Freeman as well

@ Lightysnake: Wyeth does both. He lures people into death matches using money, and does he organizes the death matches. Again I don’t know if that’s heinous enough anymore especially compared to Bart but I just thought to answer since you asked

Edited by G-Editor on Jul 25th 2023 at 4:42:01 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
FlowerPicking Since: Feb, 2023 Relationship Status: A heart full of love
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#21280: Jul 25th 2023 at 1:47:12 PM

[tup] Laufey. Didn't see this one coming.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#21281: Jul 25th 2023 at 1:48:21 PM

Dunno. Kenneth and Janet from Black Mirror: Loch Henry are just two random people without tech or powers. But rape, torture and murder 8 people.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MermaidEyes15 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
#21282: Jul 25th 2023 at 1:52:54 PM

[up] True, but I think the added Kick the Dog by forcing a man to watch his family slaughtered before he both physically and psychologically tortured a man by burning him alive makes me say he has an edge, espically since he willingly knows and takes some amount of joy in David suffering in space when he begins.

Alrighty, here’s the other guy from Demon 79…this won’t take long.

Who is Tim Simons? What Does He Do?

Seriously this won’t take long. Tim Simons seem like a regular ol’ dude. Nida meets Tim after she releases Gaap and she tries to leave the house in the middle of the night when he keeps pestering her to try and kill 3 people to prevent the apocalypse. Tim is walking his dog when he notices Nida up ahead talking to Gaap, who he can’t see and questions who she’s talking to. Gaap takes this opportunity and convinces Nida to kill Tim, before he drops a fucking Bombshell. As revealed by Gaap and even shown a small bit through a premonition, Tim raped his young daughter multiple times every night when she goes to sleep, with Gaap saying that it will go one for years later and will get so bad that she will eventually kill herself at 21 due to the pain of it. This convinces Nida and she instantly kills him with a rock. Good Riddance.

Mitigating Factors?

Ummm, no? Not? Really? We don’t see the relationship he had with his wife (and I doubt he loves her honestly due to raping their daughter) nor his dog. And he doesn’t seem to care for Nida, only asking who’s she talking to and asking if he should call someone when she says that she needs help, and Gaap pretty much says after that he’s absolutely rotten to the core, so yeah? I think he has nothing inherited preventing tbh

Heinous Standard?

Okay. Ignoring the fact that Demon 79 is all but states to be in an alternate universe (Due to this being the first of Red Mirror and the fact the world ends by the end of the episode so yeah)….the guy rapes his young daughter multiple times, and will continue to do so, and we are given proof by this through Gaap himself even seen a premonition of him just about to do the deed. For a guy who only appears in one scene and is just…a man, I think this speaks for itself.

Verdict?

I’m gonna go with a yes, but once again I leave it in your court.

[down] I get that, although I think Charles Manson Expy still has the edge above David due to the added torture.

Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Jul 25th 2023 at 5:00:19 AM

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#21283: Jul 25th 2023 at 1:58:18 PM

I really wanted the Charles Manson expy to count but I have to vote [tdown] on Kappa, especially considering the fact that Beyond the Sea ends in a full-circle—David lost his family to Kappa and eventually murdered Cliff's family out of sheer spite.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Jul 25th 2023 at 6:05:43 AM

FlowerPicking Since: Feb, 2023 Relationship Status: A heart full of love
Purgatoryisof2 Since: Aug, 2022
#21285: Jul 25th 2023 at 2:02:21 PM

For Laufey, does he have to compete with Malekith or was there no Dark World book?

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#21286: Jul 25th 2023 at 2:11:02 PM

Nope, no Malekith; Hela; Thanos's worst actions in Infinity War/Endgame...universal destruction is way rarer in the novels.

Gonna say no to Wyeth, ultimately.

Edited by Ravok on Jul 25th 2023 at 2:11:26 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
TheGrayFox ....Phenomenal from A Lovecraftian fishing village Since: Sep, 2011
....Phenomenal
#21287: Jul 25th 2023 at 2:15:08 PM

[up][up] I believe it was said the various novels aren't in continuity with each other? Like a character was Spared by the Adaptation in one, only to still be treated as dead like the movies in subsequent books.

[tup] for Freeman, Man, and Laufey. Not sure on the Black Mirror guys.

There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
Purgatoryisof2 Since: Aug, 2022
#21288: Jul 25th 2023 at 2:16:18 PM

[up][up] and [up]: Got it, thanks for answering the query.

[tup] to Laufey then.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#21289: Jul 25th 2023 at 2:23:35 PM

[up][up]Wasn't that just the Junior Novels?

TheGrayFox ....Phenomenal from A Lovecraftian fishing village Since: Sep, 2011
....Phenomenal
#21290: Jul 25th 2023 at 2:29:05 PM

[up] Uh, maybe? I thought it was the same ones, but none of them were my proposals and I fully admit my memory is not great, so I might just be wrong.

There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#21291: Jul 25th 2023 at 2:31:25 PM

The specifics of someone being Spared by the Adaptation and then being dead in the next book was indeed the Junior Novels, but there's still no strong connection between these novels (they're novelizations of movies where the author didn't know what was coming next, by definition there's less connections between them than the films) but even if they were, the second and third Thor movies weren't adapted

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#21292: Jul 25th 2023 at 2:49:17 PM

And honestly, even if they WERE, I think Laufey does enough.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#21293: Jul 25th 2023 at 2:50:16 PM

Besides Soji's writeup needing work, the following are pending:

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#21294: Jul 25th 2023 at 3:02:46 PM

[tup] to Mother, Jonathan Gavrilovic, the Postman, the Street Preacher, Kimmi, Ace Woody, Mother Seddons and Raymond Tunstall, Charles Garrison, Dormammu, The Man Who Can't Breathe, Freeman and Laufey.

Unsure on either Black Mirror candidate to be honest.

MermaidEyes15 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
#21295: Jul 25th 2023 at 3:10:59 PM

[up] Wanna explain on hesitation on Tim

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#21296: Jul 25th 2023 at 3:17:27 PM

Okay I know I announced to reserve discussion for Record of Ragnarok but My EP isn't ready and the last thing I want to is rush in on doing it so I. If fact, I've decided to take a break from doing any EPs for at least until the date to discuss season 4 of Solar Opposites arrives in a month (the 28th of next month to be exacted) so that I can clear my mind. (Hey At least I can use that time to look over my approved candidates to see if there's anything militating about them)

Edited by G-Editor on Jul 25th 2023 at 6:31:25 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#21298: Jul 25th 2023 at 4:05:45 PM

[tup] Tim

As the guy who proposed, then had cut the Man Who Can’t Breathe, I’ll abstain.

Though speaking of Insidious, I had the newest film reserved, and no qualifiers. Once again our old friend The Lipstick-Face Demon is back as the main antagonist, but despite successfully possessing someone and attempting to go cause havoc, ultimate does nothing of consequence. Once again, the series’ supposed Big Bad has really nothing to show compared to the supposedly lesser ghosts and demons.

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#21300: Jul 25th 2023 at 4:43:39 PM

Tbh going with [tdown]Kappa.

If his victim goes into murder another family. And with Kenneth around.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

Total posts: 60,500
Top