Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
Close enough.
Though in the future, please leave them in the Drafts and I'll take care of the YMMV.
Also, I'm moving Simon to the top since he's more of an Arc Villain.
No worries
Edited by ACW on Jul 24th 2023 at 1:22:59 PM
Quote suggestion ?
Bob Page: Why contain it? Let it spill over the schools and churches, let the bodies pile up in the streets. In the end they'll beg us to save them.
Okay I got no push back so I think this candidate is viable, since we have Griffith and Randall Flagg song versions.
What is the Work?
Thrash Metal band Anthrax's song "A Skeleton in the Closet" off their most famous album Among the Living. The song is a musical adaptation of Apt Pupil.
Who is the Character? What Have They Done?
Todd Bowden, as with his novel version, psychologically torments Arthur Denker into revealing his secret past life as a nazi war criminal, Kurt Dussander after growing fascinated with the holocaust when learning it in school. Growing increasingly fascinated by the horrors he hears. Initially having nightmares, he eventually begins gleefully slaughtering homeless people, with Anthrax's lyrics in this version implying he deprives sexual pleasure from it. When Dussander's secret is revealed, Bowden decides to go out in the most violent way possible with his life certainly ruined, taking 400 round of ammunition to murder dozens of innocent people on a freeway, with it taking hours for him to be defeated.
Any Redeeming Qualities? Freudian Excuse?
Nope, nada. He's initially unsettled by the stories he hears but this quickly crosses over him taking sadistic pleasure in it. The song has some light humour that Anthrax is known for (bumicide) but he is taken seriously and it's one of their more serious and dark-sounding songs.
Is He Bad Enough?
While Randall Flagg, the other character that is included in the album, does worse, he's also a horrific Humanoid Abomination with plentiful resources whereas Todd Bowden is a mundane teenager with no particular resources, plus his Politically Incorrect Villain attributes.
Verdict?
Yeah, I was sitting on this one for being too much of an adaptation but Randall Flagg and Griffith, again, are there so I think he can count too.
Edited by Orangutans on Jul 24th 2023 at 11:58:04 AM
Okay with all those outta the way now. I’m doing a candidate from a Fanfiction that I think personally Counts. Everyone’s we are talking about Despair Island.
What’s The Work?
So we all know Total Drama, right? The cool ass animated TV show about teens competing for money? Well, what if it was a Death Game? That’s right, Despair Island twists and darkens the story, showing a sadistic game show host and his Drill Sergeant Nasty/Cook right hand having 22 teenage stereotypes fight for their lives on national television….okay, not too different from the origins. But Despair Island makes major differences. Character’s actions, personalities and relationships are switch around when the consequences for elimations….is elimination.
Now originally, the main host himself, Chris McLean, was originally a Monster, however, he had redeeming qualities, so currently the only Monster is Zolkoff, the sadistic right hand of Chris.
However, there is still one more potential guy. And he’s not a peach himself.
Who is Jonathan Gavrilovic? What Does He Do?
I can’t spell that last name from memory lol.
Jonathan Gavrilovic is a controversial and prominent Canadian Politician who may or may not have ties to the Serbian Mob ( He does). And he is also the main beneficiary as well as the producer of Total Drama. Jonathan has only one appearance in a flashback, where Chris meets him in his office where he pitches the idea of Total Drama, death and all, and wants the Politician to find a loophole to make his show legal so he wouldn’t get in trouble. Jonathan initially appears horrified and seems hesitate to go through with the idea, but only due to the fact it could get him in trouble. However, after Chris mentions monetary gain, Jonathan seems onboard and later calls McLean, green lighting the show and assuring Chris that he most definitely found a way to make the show legal and he’ll be fine.
Jonathan proceeds to give Chris everything he needs, giving him his island while also giving him supplies and weapons as well as Zolkoff, the psycho right hand (who is in the Serbian Mob) as well as various cameraman, Chef and Interns, and basically gives everything Chris needs to make the show happen, including the teenagers themselves (we’ll get to that in a minuet). For the rest of the story, Jonathan is in the background for the story, having his cameramen and the other cameras film the teenagers getting injured or maimed as well as getting executed by the sadist duo. It’s even shown that Jonathan helps, such as having an electronic gallery made in the dining hall in which show the dead contestants bodies to give incentives towards everyone else. In the last challenge, right before Chris executes Geoff, Jonathan calls him and green lights a second season, ready to have more teens die for the money, right before the government arrives.
You see, as Chris did not know was that Jonathan actually lied to him about the legality of the show which made Chris go ahead in the first place. You see, it’s revealed big surprised, Jonathan IS part of the Serbian Mob and was planning on selling Total Drama on the Black Market. Jonathan uses his mob ties and organizes the mass kidnapping of the 22 teenagers from their homes, dressing up their mobster’s uniforms and helicopter’s as Canadian Government and forcing the parents to sign fraudulent contracts, all to throw off the Canadian Government, and he keeps his distance from the show in case the Government gets wise and storms the place so he would stay clear and everyone else falls.
And fall they do, as everyone from Chris, to Zolkoff, to Chef to the interns and cameramen all get arrested as Geoff, Justin, Noah, Duncan and Bridgette are rescued. Zolkoff murders Chris to prevent him from saying anything about Jonathan’s involvement and Zolkoff escapes, never being seen again. Jonathan has his men relocate Chef to Europe to prevent the cops to getting to him, and due to Jonathan staging the kidnapping of having the Canadian Government involve, the authorities are force to cover it up and make the kids sign NDAs to stay quiet as well. So in the end, 19 teens had died and the remaining 5 have to live with what happened as they continue what happened.
And what happened to Jonathan himself? Nothing. Not only does Jonathan not get linked to the crime, he later sells Total Drama to the black market with his uncle and got millions, all the while staying a respected politician in the Canadian Government.
Mitigating Factors?
None absolute. While initially appearing horrified at the idea of the game, it is very much states it was only outta his own self preservation and not get in trouble and gets on board immediately once seeing the financial opportunity. Other than that, despite his limited screen time, shows to be a completely greedy man willing to have kids murdered and actively helping in it, with no care for anyone else.
Heinous Standard?
While Zolkoff and Chris do the killing directly it’s shown that Jonathan not only made sure the show happened by lying to Chris about the legality while green lighting it, he also gave Chris everything he need to make it happen, including the weapons, supplies, Zolkoff, the cameracrew, and ofc, the island teenagers themselves, who he personally has kidnapped. It’s pretty much clear that Jonathan is the main cause of the Show happening and the reason Chris and Zolkoff were able to brutally kill them, and with Jonathan attempting to green light a second season to ensure more kids dying as well as backstabbing Chris ahead of time and throwing them all under the bus, I think Jonathan passes easily enough.
Verdict?
I’m going with a yes. But what are all of your opinions?
Johnathan, Todd
- The Illuminae Files: Gemina: Lt. Travis J. Falk is the sociopathic leader of the audit team sent by BeiTech to take control of the jump station Heimdall to ensure there are no witnesses to their atrocities on Kerenza IV. In Falk's very first scene, Falk and his team seize control of the station and quickly murders Hanna Donnely's father for being the commander of the station. Falk then sends out his men to hunt down and kill any stragglers they find while forcing the station's engineers to reactivate the wormhole so BeiTech can send a drone fleet to wipe out the fleeing Kerenza survivors before he executes all of the non-essential personnel. Falk then tries to manipulate Hanna into turning herself in by falsely claiming that her partner Nik is a child-killer and that he will spare her. When this doesn't work Falk responds by flushing all 57 people in the habitat section into space and threatens to flush other sections as well. Falk then has his men rig the station's reactor to explode after they leave to kill everyone on board to ensure there are no surviving witnesses.
Pending:
- Critical Role: Exandria Unlimited: Calamity: Asmodeus
(Afterword)
- Riget: Exodus: Grand Duc
(Crow); replace current entry
- Batman: The Dark Knight Returns: Joker
(Emerald)
- Vampyr: Chopin
(Ravok)
- Peret em Heru: For the Prisoners: Soji
(umaprasis)
Alright got 2 from this series
The work
#MurderTrending is a book trilogy by Gretchen McNeil.
Set in the near future, (or the past now) a mysterious, anonymous businessman known as the Postman came up with a plan to deal with America's violent crime problem: repurpose Treasure Island off the coast of San Francisco into Alcatraz 2.0, where America's violent criminals are sent there to be hunted and killed by state-sanctioned murders known as "Painiacs" while the country gets to watch the whole bloody affair from the Postman's app to entertain the nation while the Postman profits. Only not everyone sent to Alcatraz 2.0 is guilty.
Of my 2 candidates, the first is the Postman himself, but we're starting with the 3rd book since that was actually a Stealth Prequel to the series showing his origins. Also bear with me since the guy goes by a couple different names throughout the series.
Who is the Postman and what has he done
#NoEscape
As revealed here the Postman was born Lincoln Browne, the oldest child of Dereck and Melinda Browne, the wealthy owners of a escape room company. Lincoln was their golden child, a straight A student, star of the football team, Valedictorian. But Lincoln had a secret: he really enjoyed hurting and killing things. For a while he got his fix by killing animals but of course he would move on from there.
After going to Columbia university Lincoln ran off after being implicated in a missing persons case of a female student, eventually hiding out in Vietnam for a while. While there he meets his wife Genevie and marries her cause he needs some money.
Eventually he returns to America after his father finally started threatening to cut him off. Lincoln responds by killing both of his parents to inherit the company. He then framed their deaths as suicides since there was security leak recently that resulted in way too many people beating one of their escape rooms with a ash prize, threatening the company with bankruptcy.
A year later he teams up with his younger sister Kimber "Persey", supposedly with a scheme to non-lethally catch the people responsible for the security leak that cost their parents their lives.
He lures the several people involved with the leak by staging an ultimate escape room challenge with a $10 million prize, he joins the group with Persey under the name of Kevin Lima, the group goes through a couple rooms before things start to get lethal, with in order: a guy gets his head bashed, a woman gets decapitated by an automatic door, one guy falls into an incinerator, another impaled on a spike, the next was one where a woman was supposed to be electrocuted to death but Persey manages to make sure she survuves that, and next with a man getting crushed to death, all the while he makes constant really bad-taste jokes about their deaths.
In the final room they're given a gun and a wood chipper and given an instruction by the person who is supposedly running the whole thing to kill the last person responsible and throw their body into the chipper. Lincoln quickly shoots the person who was suppsoed to be the last one left and tosses her body into the wood chipper, before revealing that he was the mastermind behind the whole thing and seemingly kills himself by jumping into the wood chipper as the police storm the place.
Afterwards it's revealed he faked his death (somehow) and pays off Persey for her part even though she didn't want anyone to die, but Lincoln justifies himself by claiming that he was just avenging their parents, though Persey does imply to him that she does know what really happened. Anyway the books ends with Lincoln saying that since he's now legally dead he's going to assume the name Abe Bronson.
#MurderTrending
After that years pass where Abe is a wealthy successful businessman, its implied that he was a Serial Killer on the side and has 2 children, his son Abe Jr. (Coop) and his daughter Kimber (Kimmi). Coop is a normal kid but Kimmi is a chip off the old block and is just as blood thirsty as he is.
Kimmi around age 12 decides she wants a sister so she kidnaps Dee Guerra and tortures her into "accepting" her as her sister before she escapes, causing Kimmi to get sent to a mental institution.
Abe sees this as an opportunity and goes to Dee's father about possibly making a show out of this, but he refuses. However this does give Abe an idea about making TV out of murder.
Using his business connections and some help with the Russian government he helps a reality TV star get elected President (the Prez is never named but I'm gonna guess that his name is "Donald") and then sells him the pitch for Alcatraz 2.0 and the Postman app. Soon convicted murderers are being sent to his island to be killed by Painiacs.
Since both his Postman identity and the identities are secret he manages to become a Painiac himslef, known as "Prince Slycer" with his gimmick being that he takes women sent to the island dressed as fairy tale princesses so he can hunt and butcher them.
But he hits a snag as rating start to fall as people get bored of watching professional criminals being murdered, so he comes up with the idea of using his connections to get young, attractive, innocent people arrested for murders they didn't commit and fast-tracking their trials so they get sent to Alcatraz since they're better for ratings.
After a few years Kimmi gets released and still wants Dee to be her sister. So he ends up tracking her down, they go torture and kill her step-sister and frame Dee for it, get her sent to Alcatraz 2.0.
Once there Dee is sent straight to Slycer and Kimmi, after killing and stealing the identity of one reclusive inmate would come in and rescue her.
Things do not go according to plan as instead of being chased by Slycer Dee instead fights back using a mirror to blind him and then knocks him in the head with it, causing him to fall to the floor and he has the good fortune of landing on his own knife, killing him.
Mitigating qualities
Okay, so he seemingly cares about Persey, to the point where he names his daughter after her, but as Persey herself repeatedly notes he is a sociopath that cares about no one but himself. He claims he helped her out against their abusive father, Persery scoffs at that since he never once helped her and even once tried to mooch some money off of her when he was in Vietnam. He says he'll look after her when he inherits the money, but actually the only money she gets from him is when he pays for going along with his murder scheme. He lets Neela, the only other survivor of his death traps go because Persey wants her to live, but it's clear he wants to kill her and that Persey is going to have to keep an eye on her to make sure she survives. And in the end Persey goes off the grid because she's afraid he'll turn on her to help tie up loose ends and the book implies she's right to do it. Any care he show for her is superficial at best.
For his daughter, we don't see much of their relationship but again with the whole "he only cares about himself" thing the most we get is that they're just murder buddies and he only helps her since he likes going along with elaborate murder schemes For the Evulz.
The whole avenging his parents bit is a farce, he's the one who killed them, it was just an excuse to fake his own death and to cause some real ones.
His father was an emotionally abusive prick to Persey, constantly calling a worthless idiot, but he never abused him, he was the golden child, even when he potentially killed someone, rather hilariously the only daddy got mad at him was when he told him he wasn't going back to college.
Heinousness
Okay, so the series has quite a bit of murder in it, with the Painiacs all being Psychos For Hire, Kimmi tries to take his place and run Alcatraz after he dies and to tie up loose ends ends up killing over 90 people, the Big Bad of the second book, his old business partner Victor Merchant tries to kill around 20 people so he can convince the Russian government to run his own version of the Postman app for them.
But here's the thing, he is the Greater-Scope Villain of the whole trilogy, as he's the one who came up with the idea in the first place, he's the one who started framing innocent people, every bit of bloodshed in the whole series ties back to him, and he's killed a fair amount of people himself, between all the people he killed with his escape room trick, it's mentioned he killed people in his basement before he set up Alcatraz 2.0 and he killed plenty of women as Prince Slycer. I think he keeps.
Conclusion
Overall I think the Postman is a
Yes to Winter, Bruce, the mother, Todd, Jonathan, and the Postman.
- Part 2: The Joker is Batman's greatest nemesis, already a mass murderer responsible for the deaths of over six hundred people before he fell into a catatonic state with the Dark Knight's retirement. Awakening after his obsession returns to disband the mutants, the Joker manipulates his way onto a popular talk show where he proceeds to murder his psychologist on live television before gassing the entire audience, agonizingly killing over two hundred people with his deadly Joker Venom. After brainwashing a congressman to his death, the Joker attacks the Gotham fair, where he has his minions attempt to bomb a roller coaster ride when Batman arrives. The Joker delights in causing wanton violence as Batman gives chase, from assaulting random people to taking a teenage girl and a young boy hostage, before escalating to simply shooting whomever he comes across. When his horrific massacres drive Batman to partially snap his neck in a rage, the Joker merely delights in how they'll meet again in Hell and finishes the job himself, laughing all the while over how the authorities will kill the Dark Knight for his "murder."
to Postman (I also had that book but never got around to finishing it... yet I decided to donate it to my library anyway)
Edited by G-Editor on Jul 24th 2023 at 5:34:28 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffTo get her to go along with his scheme, she needed cash and he wanted her to go along for the fun, the book also leaves it unclear whether or not he actually paid her, he hands her the thing to cash in for money and Persey thinks about about there's nothing she can really do if it's actually fake, and the book ends before we can find out
"We'll meet again" | 🏳️⚧️

I’ll keep it in mind. Also, was it ok to add the write ups since it’s the day and all got many
?