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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

Vrx04 Since: Jan, 2023
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#5427: Feb 22nd 2023 at 7:11:35 AM

Yea to Paolo. Now let's do this:

  • Legion of Super-Heroes (2023): The original Brainiac is the secret founder of the Dark Circle. A nightmarish villain responsible for countless atrocities, Brainiac attempts to have his minions murder Legion members to manipulate Kara and his clone Brainiac 5 into activating a special device that affects space and time. Having had numerous other clones created to do damage ranging from serial killing to mass destruction, Brainiac has survived by grafting them to his body still alive, conscious and with one still screaming. Seizing control of the device, Brainiac plans to erase any hero from existence along with any world that can ever possibly threaten his reign over existence, plotting to destroy entire worlds to secure his final goal.
  • The Offering: Abyzou, the demon known as "The Taker of Children" appeared to the scholar Yosille when he attempted to contact the Angel of Life to bring his wife back from the dead. Murdering a little girl and taking her form, Abyzou began to feed on children with Yosille in its thrall. Upon Yosille's sacrifice to contain it, Abyzou arrives at a funeral home and tricks the hero Arthur's wife Clare into freeing it, murdering Arthur's father Saul. A voracious devourer of children targeting the pregnant Clare's unborn baby, Abyzou proceeds to kill anyone who helps Arthur. Taking the form of one victim to trick Arthur into a pointless suicide in a failed attempt to contact Abyzou, the demon then lures Clare into a false sense of security before attacking her as well.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#5428: Feb 22nd 2023 at 7:23:13 AM

[tup] to Paolo and Bogan.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#5429: Feb 22nd 2023 at 7:29:45 AM

Sure to Palpatine.

Paolo...he tries to destroy the world, so unless that's super common, I'll give a yes.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#5431: Feb 22nd 2023 at 7:35:28 AM

Let me get this one in now: from Garo, I give you...King. Anyone mind if I do Kevdak a day early? I'll get to the Closer and Warcraft next, then Cat and Canary and Caged Heat

Who is King?

An ancient Horror who's survived since ancient times in the animated continuity. King is a ruthless, savvy, intelligent creature that has preyed on countless humans. Notably, King is not a very powerful horror, unlike Rudra. What sets King apart is his intellect. The "King" El Dorado in Vanishing Line, King has steadily built up his followers, recruiting Queen, Knight, Dr. Stanley, Bishop, and more to be his servitors.

Crafting El Dorado from what amounts to nothing all by himself, King makes it a seeming paradise to lure in humans. Once there, they are kept as potential prey, or simply devoured by Horrors en masse, with a real chilling undercurrent of King presiding over the mass slaughter of countless people.

Knowing his own weakness, King plans a way to change that: by using Queen to convert the heroine Sophie's brother to his cause, with his digital skills, King plots to convert El Dorado to a purely digital paradise and then expand it. Every human in the world would be caught up in it, and converted to data. King will be able to consume them at will, devouring their souls with sadistic aplomb, while he orders Queen to begin the massacre of El Dorado.

Sword, the hero, and Sophie overcome King's plots and in a massive, epic ride, Sword as Garo cuts his way through masses of horrors to reach King...

No match for Garo, king is sliced in half and can only, shocked, murmur at Garo's power, before he fades away forever.

Mitigating issues?

Not a CHANCE. With Horrors having agency in this 'verse, King is the absolute worst of anyone, with massive plots...notably? King may be the weakest antagonist of the big ones. Mendoza is a powerful sorcerer. Rudra is one of the strongest horrors ever....King is notably not a powerful Horror. He's just avery savvy, intelligent, manipulative and ruthless one who gets by on his brains and becomes a world-level threat for that reason.

Conclusion?

Keeper.

Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 22nd 2023 at 7:44:29 AM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#5432: Feb 22nd 2023 at 7:47:08 AM

What's the Work?

MOR is a horror game made by Vikid Games, that follows Linn, a teenager, who arrived to her old house on a small island to live there for few days and deal with her trauma, which was the result of almost drowning in the past. As she encounters a ghost of a child there, she discovers that her mother never told her the truth behind her past.

Full walkthrough of the game can be watched here:

My candidate is Linn's mother - Miss Frid.

Who is Miss Frid?

A woman, who in the past adopted several children, who were given to her by parents, who couldn't take care of them, and the parents paid her to take care of them, and later on wrote her letters, begging her to let them see their children. In reality Miss Frid was an "Angelmaker", aka she drowned nearly all of the children, and then continued to take money from their parents, refusing to let them come to the island, where she took the children, hiding children's corpses in the cellar behind the giant rock and burying the letters of the parents.

Failing to drown Linn in the past, resulting in Linn losing most of her memories, Miss Frid decided to spare her and act as her mother, driving her to the island, to live by herself, whenever she "needed space". As Linn started to uncover the truth behind Miss Frid, she urged her to stop "talking with a ghost" (who was the ghost of a child, killed by Miss Frid). When Linn discovered the cave, where children's bones were rotting, Miss Frid discovered her and locked her in the cave, before she could escape, abandoning her there to starve to death.

Redeeming Qualities?

None that seems to hold. While Linn told that Miss Frid was sad and depressed (to the point that we see some pills in her room), we are never told the reason behind that, with nothing implying that she felt regret. While she mentions to have a sister, the relationship between them are unknown and while she spared Linn in the past, in the present she has no problem locking her in the cave to starve to death, when she discovered that Miss Frid killed several children.

Heinousness

Drowned several children and abandoned her adopted daughter to die of starvation, I think she passes.

Conclusion?

What do you think?

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Feb 22nd 2023 at 6:53:46 PM

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#5433: Feb 22nd 2023 at 7:47:08 AM

Big, big yes to King.

I have no problem with you doing Kavdak early.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#5435: Feb 22nd 2023 at 8:04:29 AM

[tup] to King and Mrs Frid

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#5436: Feb 22nd 2023 at 8:24:44 AM

[tup] Palpatine, sounds like he creates the Holy Russian Empire(but under a completely depraved mind rather than a delusionaly depraved mind) on a Galactic Scale

[tup] King

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#5437: Feb 22nd 2023 at 8:31:15 AM

Yes to Frid and King.

I assume King goes at the top of the tree? (Why doesn't Bishop count again?)

I'm fine with Kevdak whenever.

Edited by ACW on Feb 22nd 2023 at 11:33:22 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#5438: Feb 22nd 2023 at 8:34:06 AM

Yes. Bishop is the least evil of the group and far less into wanton sadism. He's really just vibing along for the ride and hits MB far more than CM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#5439: Feb 22nd 2023 at 8:36:23 AM

Fair enough.

Though we can probably chop the header for the tree.

Should Queen be moved above Knight?

Edited by ACW on Feb 22nd 2023 at 11:37:22 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#5440: Feb 22nd 2023 at 8:37:43 AM

[tup]Frid and King.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#5441: Feb 22nd 2023 at 8:42:34 AM

[tup] King and Frid

It's Spooky Month!
ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Ultimate Lifeform
#5442: Feb 22nd 2023 at 8:46:22 AM

[tup] to Red King, King, and The Miss.

Out of curiosity has anyone else seen Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania? I ask because Future and I, the two who jointly reserved it are at an impasse, namely a disagreement about a certain character. Open to PM's!

Edited by ForgoLight on Feb 22nd 2023 at 8:50:44 AM

"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#5443: Feb 22nd 2023 at 8:47:22 AM

No discussion yet, not even spoilered ones.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#5444: Feb 22nd 2023 at 8:47:33 AM

Um, please wait until the discussion date has come.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#5445: Feb 22nd 2023 at 8:49:02 AM

[tup] To King and Frid

Sure go for Kevdak Lighty!

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Ultimate Lifeform
#5446: Feb 22nd 2023 at 8:49:14 AM

Sorry! It's just I asked Future if we should get some other opinions on this and they agreed since neither of us were convincing the other with our arguments and were both pretty dead set on our positions.

"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#5447: Feb 22nd 2023 at 8:49:36 AM

[tup] Frid, King

@Forgo you might want to delete that, some Tropers have the site spoiler free. Might be better if you worded it something like "Saw the film PM if you wanna discuss it".

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#5448: Feb 22nd 2023 at 9:01:20 AM

Though it reminds me I'll be doing my Kang from the comics soon. Kang, Closer, Warcraft, and the two film baddies. Should on top of this soon

Alright, with no objections to doing him now real quick: from The Legend of Vox Machina...let's talk Kevdak.

Who is Kevdak?

Voiced by the exceptional Ralph Ineson, Kevdak is an elderly Goliath, a race of near-humans, much bigger and with gray skin. Kevdak is the uncle of one of Vox Machina's members, Grog Strongjaw and the leader of the Herd of Storms, a group of Goliaths that Kevdak has turned into little better than slaughtering bandits. In the past, Kevdak made of Grog a vicious brute who killed countless innocent people. Kevdak tends to center on a village with one command: "Bleed 'em!"

The end result is nothing but slaughter. Men, women, children, nobody survives and their riches are taken by Kevdak for the "glory of the Herd." Grog happened upon an elderly gnome and refused to kill him when he begged for his life, having only killed defenders before. Opposing Kevdak, Grog paid a heavy price and was beaten to a pulp, to within an inch of his life, left to die and exiled from the Herd. the gnome and his granddaughter Pike Trickfoot, nursed Grog back to health, and Grog became a much gentler, kinder person who firmly befriended Pike as her close buddy.

Kevdak continued to lead the Herd of Storms as its Thunderlord, killing numerous more innocents, shown in the massacre of another village. Not even Kevdak's family is safe. His son Zanror opposes his actions, but Kevdak keeps him in line via threats and beatings. Kevdak also works under the evil Black Dragon Umbrasyl who uses him to gather tribute for Umbrasyl's group, the Chroma Conclave, necessitating more slaughter to make the tribute. When Zanror openly opposes Kevdak on what he's brought the Herd to, Kevdak beats him half to death and clearly intends to murder him before the Herd in a conquered village.

Grog arrives to settle the old score and Kevdak wins the fight, impaling Grog painfully on a spike and taking Pike to crush her head slowly, gleefully mocking Grog over his affection for "lower" races....Grog, set off, begins to rage and savagely pummels his uncle for harming Pike. Kevdak orders the Herd to attack and Vox Machina shows up for a full on war. Zanror tries to stop his father and Kevdak tries to headbutt him to death, resulting in Grog finally taking down his uncle with a roar of "FOR STRONGJAW" and leaping from the sky to swing his axe....bisecting Kevdak down the middle and ending the reign of the wicked Thunderlord for good.

Mitigating issues?

Uh, no. not one iota. Kevdak is a bloodthirsty marauder and even being forced into service by the Chroma Conclave doesn't change that. Before that, Kevdak is a mass murdering bandit. He deludes himself to thinking he can get the better of Umbrasyl, but that's only so he can keep massacring innocent people. He's easily the worst villain of his tier. the other baddies so far are the Chroma Conclave, but they're not defeated yet...but Thordak is in fine form, leading the massacre of an entire city and planning worse, with Raishan helping him to do it while plotting against him. Brimscythe from season 1 had the idea to starve a kingdom into compliance, with leaves the only question as Umbrasyl, responsible for a lot of nastiness but it's questionable if he's bad enough to his fellow dragons, or if he edges out Brimscythe.

The Briarwoods are also evil as hell, Sylas and Delilah are mass murdering tyrants responsible for torture and loads of cruelty, but they're powerful as it gets with resources of an entire country and immense personal power. But they also love one another deeply.

Kevdak? When Grog opposes the Herd for the first time., Kevdak sneers at him for "turning on your own family. Your cousin, my son!"....except Zanror means NOTHING to him. Kevdak makes clear Zanror lives at his pleasure and shows no hesitation in violently abusing him and trying to kill him with no emotion after only a cold "Son" when Zanror tries to stop him.

Maybe the only good thing you can say about Kevdak is he's no coward. When Grog cuts his arm almost off, Kevdak rips it off to use it as a club with his special gauntlet, prompting even Grog to admit "That. Is. Badass."

Conclusion?

Kevdak is a very simple and basic keeper.

Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 22nd 2023 at 9:10:39 AM

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#5450: Feb 22nd 2023 at 9:10:01 AM

[tup] to Frid and enthusiastic yes to Kevdak


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