Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
for Brainiac
Now for Desert Tumbler: To me it sounds like his moral agency is questionable. He was a brutal bank robber before he developed a split personality and afterwards, he talks about killing people to obtain a high score, kills his own allies and act a lot more irrational in general.
Yes, he was a bad person before but he became a lot worse after the accident. I could give him a thumbs up if he already had a notable bodycount beforehand, but as of now it’s
because I’m not sure about his moral agency.
@ACW Yes, he only appears in The Black Nebula and dies at the end.
And while Mika also meets the series' heinous standards, she isn't a Complete Monster because she displays genuine love and respect for her late father.
It is I, the narrator, categorising addict and writer of books you haven't read.- Legend of Oz: Wicked West:
- The Wicked Witch of the West is an utterly cruel woman who wants nothing more than to dominate all of Oz. In her quest for an army, West murdered the creators of the Golden Cap and used it to control the entire "People" race. To illustrate her control, West forced the People to slaughter an entire village of their friends, and threatened to make them turn on the rest of Oz and then one another if they didn't follow West's orders. Terrorizing Oz for years to come, West learns of the arrival of Dorothy Gale and immediately tries to murder the girl and her friends to steal her power. West then proclaims her intention to burn down Dorothy's homeworld and bring devastation to Oz and a dozen more innocent realms.
Next up, I've gooooot...
What's the work?
Bump in the Night (no, not that.) is a 1991 TV movie starring Meredith Baxter as an alcoholic reporter and divorcee who springs into action to find her young son when he goes missing, kidnapped by a pedophile...played by, uh, Christopher Reeve.
Now, very unfortunately? Reeve's character, Lawrence Muller, doesn't count. He's a heinous pedophile and child pornographer, but he's genuinely mentally unwell and seems to feel a level of regret at what he is. Reeve is fucking terrifying in the role, all awards to him for that one, but no dice. A side villain, though...
Who is Ben Nicolaides? What has he done?
A slimy, slick pornographer who was busted years ago for utilizing underage models in his work, Ben Nicolaides—Terrence Mann—has restarted his pornography career...this time solely with young children as the focus, having learned from previous experience exactly how profitable it is. He rounds up children and coerces them into heinous acts that he films and distributes throughout New York to pedophiles far and wide.
Now, Nicolaides's girlfriend Cheryl, who normally distributes the vids, decides to try to take a more active role in her lover's work...she goes behind his back and contacts one of Nicolaides's most avid customers, Lawrence Muller, and has him kidnap young Jonathan Tierney, allowing Muller a few hours to, erm, "play" with Jonathan before Nicolaides uses Jonathan for his films. When Nicolaides is put under the microscope by police as a result, he approaches Cheryl all sunshine and lovey-dovey words, goading her into telling him about the situation with Lawrence...once she's done so, Nicolaides promptly beats her to death out of sheer rage.
Realizing that he has to tie up all loose ends, Nicolaides tracks Lawrence down and attacks him, planning to murder both Lawrence and Jonathan to silence them. Overpowered by Reeve because Nicolaides, of course, forgot that Reeve is Superman, Nicolaides winds up getting stabbed to death by Lawrence. Lawrence and Jonathan are found by Jonathan's mother and the cops before Lawrence can harm Jonathan, and Lawrence flings himself out a window rather than face justice.
Mitigating features?
Child pornographer
Heinousness?
Child pornographer
Final Verdict?
C H I L Dㅤ ㅤㅤ ㅤ P O R N O G R A P H E R
Edited by Ravok on Feb 19th 2023 at 12:54:27 PM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
to Brainiac, and Ro... And I am not comfortable voting on Ravok's latest candidate... You get a disgusted 🤮 for that EP.
About his split personality.
He has two sides, an Ax-Crazy one and a Soft-Spoken Sadist, but I don't think this impacts his moral agency. He's well aware of how evil he is, and he enjoys being so.
Both sides are evil. They share memories, and both partake in acts of incredible sadism. Most of his more erratic behaviours and nonsensical outbursts are just part of his personality rather than a sign of any loose grip on reality. While most of the time, moral agency issues are issues because they stop the person from being good or knowing right from wrong, nothing indicates that this is the case with Desert.
While most of his worst deeds happened after the split, it's clear that he's still the same person with the same memories. Evidence of this lies in his manipulation of Ethyl, which he started before developing the crazy personality and kept up even afterwards. He also had many kills under his belt pre-split.
Edited by Iceaura39 on Feb 19th 2023 at 10:15:43 AM
It is I, the narrator, categorising addict and writer of books you haven't read.Easy yes to Ben.
EDIT: It seems to be based on a book
.
Edited by Silverblade2 on Feb 19th 2023 at 11:11:54 AM

Edited by VengefulBale on Feb 19th 2023 at 2:17:50 PM
Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl