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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
#51676: Jul 31st 2024 at 1:52:45 PM

[tup] Hate-Monger and Sinister quote

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Dude-of-Wealth-And-Taste (Apprentice) Relationship Status: Become a part of me!
#51678: Jul 31st 2024 at 1:57:42 PM

[tup] to Hate Monger

Till all are one.
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#51679: Jul 31st 2024 at 2:06:35 PM

[tup] to the Hate-Monger and Sinister quote

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#51680: Jul 31st 2024 at 2:40:49 PM

[tup] for the Hate-Monger (as subtle as the original) and the Sinister quote.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#51681: Jul 31st 2024 at 3:27:42 PM

I've got some writeups due! Ravok very generously let me share Miss Minutes with him, so I've got her writeup, plus I've got Joker (I put him above Scarecrow for alphabetization).

  • Loki: Miss Minutes is a cheery AI created by He Who Remains to assist him in the creation and running of the tyrannical Time Variance Authority. For ages, Minutes has overseen the TVA's systematic "pruning" of entire timelines, wiping out billions of Variants with each extermination for any sort of deviation from their destined path. Many other Variants are kidnapped from their timelines and have their memories wiped by Minutes so they can be soldiers of the TVA, and are killed off if they ever learn the truth. After timeline pruning is stopped by Loki and Sylvie, Minutes tries to restart the process with the help of Judge Renslayer, manipulating a HWR Variant named Victor Timely into helping them. In her efforts to consolidate her rule, Minutes brutally murders an entire room of TVA agents who refuse to obey her, and threatens the same to anyone else who doesn't fall in line. While He Who Remains created the TVA for the sake of preserving the "Sacred Timeline", Minutes is simply a sadistic and obsessive yandere who decides she no longer needs HWR after his death, electing to instead seek power for its own sake.
  • Injustice 2
    • Brainiac:
    • Battle Simulator Mode:
      • The Joker, as cruel and sadistic as always, decides to play his cruelest joke yet after gaining control of Brainiac's ship and collection. Joker simply drops all of the collected people on Earth, restructuring the entire planet and putting countless species and peoples on each other's borders with no sense of "rhyme or reason" and turning the planet into a "crazy quilt". He does so knowing that the people's paranoia and fear will lead to incalcuable war where they will kill each other en masse in horrifying ways for his own sick amusement, literally grabbing popcorn while he watches the carnage unfold.
      • Scarecrow

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#51682: Jul 31st 2024 at 3:31:08 PM

My severe condolences Bull, hope the situation is resolved soon bud.

  • Trollhunters: Gunmar the Black is a vile abomination of a troll with a gluttonous desire to turn the surface world into his feeding ground. After wiping out his blood relatives to christen himself a deity to the Gumm-Gumms, Gunmar left a trail of slaughter centuries ago, feeding on humans indiscriminately. Reaching America in the 1960s, Gunmar kidnapped and butchered 190 children, fashioning a throne from their remains. Having his minions swap out babies with changelings to forward his agenda, Gunmar also continues his mass child kidnapping spree to fuel his hunger. Finally escaping his prison, Gunmar commands his minions to massacre a stadium full of people before intending to move the slaughter onto the rest of the world.

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Bluedeadredemption Since: Feb, 2021
#51683: Jul 31st 2024 at 3:36:32 PM

I send my best Bullman, sorry about the eviction. Hope things improve for you.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#51684: Jul 31st 2024 at 3:38:10 PM

Yes to Hegman and the Hate-Monger!

[up][up] Great work, bud [tup]

Just about done with my part of the Burke proposals, one more after this:

Who is John Anson Wychek? What has he done?

  • From Book 15, Down Here, one of the few villains who doesn't (exclusively!) abuse kids, John Anson Wychek is a prolific Serial Rapist of women, only convicted for one but behind over a dozen brutal successful attacks, as well as several more attempted. Wychek was finally caught soon after he began molesting his then-girlfriend's kid daughter, wearing the same ski mask he wore for his numerous assaults.
  • Luckily for Wychek, in one of his many attacks, he found a book inside the womam's home. The book contained proof of a criminal history, perpetrated by a gang of Arabic crooks...so Wychek swiped the book and began blackmailing the gang for cash, even forcing them to get him a lawyer and help him get out on bail when first arrested. The criminals, done dealing with Wychek's blackmail at this point, shoot him to try to solve their issue.
  • Wychek survives, and tries to pin the shooting on the woman who prosecuted him, Wolfe, as payback while he continues the blackmail of the gang since they still don't have the book. Burke gets onto the case, tricks Wychek into thinking he's a buddy until Wychek reveals the location of the book, then promptly shoots Wychek dead.

Mitigating features?

None, he has a sister but doesn't treat her well and his last words are gross comments about her before Burke shoots him in the head.

It's noted that he's been evil since youth, torturing animals, starting fires, etc. The first thing he does when he gets away with his crimes is send a letter to Wolfe calling her heinous things and not-so-subtly taunting her that he did more rapes than she thinks, will do more, and plans to one day find her and "fuck her to death".

Wychek has a tattoo: V71.01. The meaning? It's the classification for "adult antisocial behaivor". Yes, he got a tattoo pretty much saying "The Sociopath" [lol]

Heinousness?

While we've gotten used to vicious child abusers from this 'verse, Wychek is the worst of the simple, straight-up serial rapists, having approx. 20 victims and one count of child molestation to his name. For a basic, no-resource crook he's fine for the niche he occupies.

Final Verdict?

Keep

Edited by Ravok on Jul 31st 2024 at 3:52:30 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime Raz (Season 2) Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
#51686: Jul 31st 2024 at 3:39:46 PM

[tup] Hate-Monger (I had a feeling he'd make it to the thread one day) and Wychek

I don't want the world, I just want your half.
Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#51690: Jul 31st 2024 at 3:48:58 PM

[tup]Kendall, Byron, Carver, Hate-Monger, & Wychek

I hope everything goes well Bull

So after the one question I had a while before, I decided to look into lore, and here's what I got.

What is the Work

So we all know The Joker, DC's clown prince of crime. With his horrific, often gory nature, he would make a perfect candidate for a Gorn filled game like Mortal Kombat. And that's exactly what Netherrealm did.

I'll be looking at two individual games, Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe the Lighter and Softer fusion of the two universes, and the arcade mode of Mortal Kombat 11, wherein Joker was added as a DLC character.

Who is the Candidate

Beginning with MK vs. DC, Joker is introduced attempting to kill Batman by throwing an exploding doll on the Batmobile, before taking advantage of a rage filled Liu Kang to escape. Meeting up with Scorpion, Joker takes the moment to punch him with an extending boxing glove before getting beaten up, with Scorpion only sparing him because he sees him as beneath him. Joker later teams up with Lex Luthor, Catwoman, & Deathstroke. After they forge a Teeth-Clenched Teamwork with the Justice League, Joker & Deathstroke try to find a portal that could take them to Apokolips in order to defeat Dark Khan, the fusion between Shao Khan & Darkseid. Joker & Deathstroke defeat Sonya Blade & Kano, before Joker, discovering that the Kombat Rage supplied by the fusion of universes results in him gaining super strength, decides to betray Deathstroke and goes to Gotham in order to finally best Batman. He initially succeeds, but gets quickly defeated by Batman in a less than dignified fashion. He later joins them to go to Apokolips, fighting and getting defeated by the Mortal Kombat cast, and later just continuing on with life after the DC universe is restored.

In MK vs. DC's arcade mode, Joker discovers that he's retained his Kombat Rage stayed with him, which he uses to take over Gotham, become "Mayor Joker," and host a tournament where people fight for his amusement, with the winner fighting him personally.

With that out of the way, lets get to Mortal Kombat 11, brought to the realms via a temporal rift brought about by Kronika, Joker proceeds to cause mass chaos and destruction, at least via inferences. Banter between kombatants include implications that Joker had murdered Kung Lao, tortured Takeda Takahashi to taunt Jacqui Briggs, kidnapped Sonya Blade & Jacqui, forcing Jax to choose which one lives, and killed Shao Khan and took over Outworld. One of his movesets includes summoning a hostage with a bomb attached to him, blowing him up to inflict damage on the opponent. It apparently is so bad that Sheeva states that he's done the impossible, and united all the realms against him.

Now for the ending, After destroying Kronika, Joker takes her place as keeper of time, he uses his newfound power to cause as much mayhem and mutilation as possible. However, it only entertains him for a while, with him getting bored about how no one understands his type of chaos, so he decides to just kill every notable person in Earthrealm, Outworld, and even Netherrealm. However, he finally finds someone who shares his mindset, Havik, whom he rescues from the Void and, learning of Orderrealm, assembles the "League of Misunderstood Maniacs" consisting of him, Havik, Mileena, &... Hsu Hao. With it, they proceed to slaughter the denizens of Orderrealm before, you know what, I'll let him finish this.

Heinousness

So this is admittedly the part that's a little iffy for me, but otherwise I think he passes it. While his actions in MK vs. DC aren't given enough weight, I do think they show a blueprint for MK 11, showing him as perfectly willing to abandon and basically desire nothing but death and destruction for laughs, while other villains have a more central goal. The only one similar is Havik, but Joker doesn't have any sort of backstory to justify his actions.

Mitigating Qualities

Basically nothing. All of his funny moments are his normal Laughably Evil self, he has no true loyalty to anyone, and is just a being who wants to cause as much chaos and death as possible

Final Verdict

The Jonkling is up to you.

Sorry if anything is iffy in this writeup, it's been a while since I made one.

SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#51693: Jul 31st 2024 at 4:16:43 PM

Sure to Wychek.

Is MK vs. DC even canon to the main series?

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#51694: Jul 31st 2024 at 4:29:41 PM

[up]TBH, I'm not entirely sure, but many characters bring up events that had happened in the game, but then again, Injustice 2 also has references. I really just brought it up to cover any bases.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#51695: Jul 31st 2024 at 4:30:04 PM

[tup] to the Joker, Brainiac, Luke's parents, Moon God Selin, Train, Hegman, the Boogeyman, Commander Gin-Jun, Tim Kendal, Tem Byron, William Carver, the Hate-Monger, John Anson Wychek and Joker.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#51696: Jul 31st 2024 at 4:33:23 PM

[tup]Wycheck

With Joker. I kinda dunno. This is bad but MK 11 has tons of fucked up character endings since It's a way darker franchise than injustice is. D'vorah mutated humanitu so their the size of insects so she can eat them, Baraka has his people enslave and devour the various releams, Noob wants to kill every living thing.

Edited by miraculous on Jul 31st 2024 at 4:33:50 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#51697: Jul 31st 2024 at 4:34:59 PM

How does Joker compare to the keepers we already have for the series?

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#51698: Jul 31st 2024 at 4:36:01 PM

Plus of course theirs the big four. Shao Khan, Shinook, Quan chi and Shang Tsung. Easily four of the most evil vilains in all of gaming.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Starkrafty Since: Sep, 2017
#51699: Jul 31st 2024 at 4:46:16 PM

Honestly I'm leaning "no" on this iteration of Joker. The Mortal Kombat standard is through the roof and if a whole crop of notable villains are trying something similar to what Joker is in their endings, I can't really say he stands out.

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl

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