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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

Starkrafty Since: Sep, 2017
#51601: Jul 30th 2024 at 4:19:10 PM

Okay, I'm gonna return to the radio Shadow candidates for now as a palette cleanser from Burke.

What has Hegman done?

  • Villain of "The Fire Bug." Hegman is a corrupt insurance broker and the leader of a small, crooked ring of arsonists with a dastardly Insurance Fraud scheme. Hegman writes heavy insurance on non-existent stock owned by other members of his fraud ring, such as his Italian Dragon Varelli. Hegman then burns down the properties he's written insurance on so he and his evil buddies can reap the windfall of the insurance scam. Rinse and repeat.
  • Hegman has already torched down half-a-dozen buildings by the episode's present, and naturally, this results in a lot of collateral damage. Dozens of people are confirmed to have died, and many more people—including, in one instance, a baby—are horribly burned or threatened with death. The Shadow corners Hegman before he can pull the scheme for the seventh time, and uses his psychic powers to read Hegman's mind and learn his motives.
  • Unfortunately for the Shadow, Hegman gets away—and even worse, Hegman is as cunning as he is cruel. Hegman manages to deduce the Shadow's secret identity as Lamont Cranston because of his connection to Margot Lane, and so he kidnaps Margot to lure out the Shadow. Even worse, Hegman puts Margot through a round of torture, burning her fingertips with matches and promising her she'll face worse; when Lamont arrives, he promises, he'll burn both her and him alive.
  • Hegman intends to flee out of town after this, promising Varelli a safe way out. What Hegman neglects on telling Varelli is that he intends on murdering Varelli with a bullet to the back as soon as the coast is clear. The Shadow again uses his psychic powers to reveal this little detail to Varelli, causing the two men to shoot and kill each other.
Any mitigating factors?
  • Nope!
Heinous standard?
  • Hegman isn't a Mad Scientist or Mad Doctor or some uber-wealthy aristocrat committing crimes out of boredom or madness. His scheme is bog-standard Insurance Fraud. In that niche Hegman racks up a notably huge body count compared to many other run-of-the-mill gangsters and fraudsters the Shadow fought in the radio. Most around Hegman's level kill about a few, maybe around a dozen at absolute maximum (like the guys running a Murder, Inc. scheme that kills ten people). Hegman's firebug scheme costs multiple dozens of lives, and all for an extremely banal reason.

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
FoxyGrandpa12 Reze x Denji from New Jersey or New York (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Reze x Denji
#51611: Jul 30th 2024 at 5:16:50 PM

[tdown] Slenderman

[tup] Hegman x "Train" Man (man, that's a lot of "man") x Selin x Mr. and Mrs. Luke's Parents

"Thing is, I believe that a single good movie will change your entire life." — Makima | aka Fox | he/she/they
PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#51612: Jul 30th 2024 at 5:25:52 PM

Yes to Luke's Parents, "Train", Hegman and Selin.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#51613: Jul 30th 2024 at 5:28:18 PM

[tup]Selin, Train, & Hegman (compared to the Burke villains, this guy looks like Mr. Rogers)

PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#51614: Jul 30th 2024 at 5:42:57 PM

Btw anyone mind if I drop Roger's writeup early since I'll be busy tomorrow? Gonna leave a header for the 1990 version which I'll amend if that one ends up taking awhile since I can vouch for both movie incarnations.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#51615: Jul 30th 2024 at 5:46:59 PM

[up] That's fine.

[tup] for Hegman and "Train."

[tdown] for Slenderman.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#51616: Jul 30th 2024 at 5:52:47 PM

[tup] Train and Hegman

It's Spooky Month!
PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#51617: Jul 30th 2024 at 5:54:10 PM

  • Lord of the Flies: Roger lacks any implication of remorse for his crime in the film adaptations.
    • 1963 film: Roger is the most bloodthirsty of Jack Merridew's choir boys. Swiftly adapting to the lawlessness of the deserted island, Roger shows his savage nature by anally violating and decapitating a mother sow with a sharpened stick, and gleefully beats Simon to death. When Jack rebels against Ralph, Roger becomes his enforcer, murdering Ralph's friend Piggy, torturing two small boys for Ralph's location, then attempting to kill Ralph himself and take his head.
    • 1990 film: Roger

Agnostic about the potholes, I literally just picked because he's a pre-teen in the '63 film, 13 in the '90 one.

TiMBer1566 kittykat from Virginia Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
kittykat
#51618: Jul 30th 2024 at 6:28:22 PM

What's the work?

Boogeyman (2005) is a supernatural horror film brought to you by Eric Kripke, the mind behind Supernatural and The Boys (2019). It tells the story of a man named Tim Jenson who, as a boy, witnessed his father being abducted by the titular creature. Living his life in fear of the Boogeyman, Tim is drawn back to his childhood home to face his fears.

Who is the Boogeyman? What does he do?

An ancient, malicious creature, the Boogeyman is an entity that delights in terrorizing children, possessing the ability to transport himself through space and time, using closets and under beds to travel anywhere he wishes. As mentioned before, the Boogeyman opens the film in taking the hero's father right in front of him, traumatizing the boy for the next 15 years.

When Tim's mother passes away, Tim returns to his childhood home at his psychiatrists' suggestion in an attempt to overcome his fear. There he meets a girl named Franny, who gives him a backpack full of missing children posters, all whom are later revealed to have been victims of the Boogeyman.

Disturbed, Tim leaves the house and stays at a motel with his girlfriend Jessica. However, as Jessica is taking a bath, the Boogeyman attacks her, drowning her and taking off with her body. When Tim's concerned friend Katie calls Tim's uncle Mike to check up on him, the creature wraps uncle Mike in cellophane and drags him into a closet. Finding Franny to ask her how to stop the monster, Franny takes Tim to her father's old and decrepit house. Here, it is revealed that Franny is a ghost and one of the many children taken by the Boogeyman, with her father being Driven to Madness trying to understand the entity.

Finally deciding to face the Boogeyman, Tim follows it through various portals in time, with the Boogeyman forcing Tim to watch as he murders his girlfriend and uncle, with Tim being powerless to stop him. Tim however does manage to save Katie from being abducted. Growing tired of the game, the Boogeyman drags Tim and Katies to the place it all started: his childhood bedroom.

Here, Tim realizes that much like Pennywise, the Boogeyman bases his form oh his victim's fears. Tim smashes the toys that scared him as a child, forcing the Boogeyman back into the closet. The creature still persists however, trying to drag Tim into the closet with him, but Tim kicks it off of him, the Boogeyman falling into the void....

A post credits scene, however, reveals that the Boogeyman still lives, and is continuing to stalk and torment young children.

Now there were two Direct-to-Video follow-ups to the film, but in true Direct-to-Video sequel fashion, the movies have almost nothing to do with the original film, and were all directed, written, and produced by different people, so they're not really worth talking about.

Mitigating Factors

Now while redeeming qualities aren't an issue, there is of course the question of heinousness.

Never Say "Die" is in full effect in this movie; the Boogeyman is never once described as killing people, only "taking" them. However, there is very little room for interpretation on what the Boogeyman does to his victims, as we see the ghosts of the various children that the Boogeyman has abducted throughout the years, with supporting character Franny being revealed to be one of them, her father having be driven insane in trying to confront the creature. And of course, any ambiguity is completely dropped when it murders Jessica on screen.

The entity is also quite sadistic, taking a nasty interest in targeting Tim specifically, going out of his way to murder and abduct the people he cares about, allowing Tim to be transported through time to witness his girlfriend and uncle being killed. It's explicitly stated that the monster's goal is to psychologically torment Tim by taking the people he loves, and then finally take Tim last when he has nothing else left.

Now as I said earlier, the sequels are barely worth talking about, but if you do consider them canon, it's further shown that the Boogeyman does indeed kill his victims (quite gruesomely I might add).

Final Verdict

As usual, up to you guys.

SarenApologist Since: Jun, 2023
#51619: Jul 30th 2024 at 6:29:19 PM

[tup] to the Burke candidates. Might actually be the most vile shit any candidate has done.

Edited by SarenApologist on Jul 30th 2024 at 6:29:42 AM

Here's my home address, social media, and bank account!
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#51620: Jul 30th 2024 at 6:40:15 PM

Easy yes to the Burke villains. A baby breeding cult ring? Now that is a whole nother brand of nastiness. Holy crap!

TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#51621: Jul 30th 2024 at 6:42:17 PM

[tup] for "Train" and Hegman.

[tdown] for Slenderman.

Okay, I have a candidate where I'm not fully sure if they make it, but I feel like they're worth the discussion, especially since I haven't seen any EP on them before. With that said...

The Order of the Stick is a long-running webcomic created by Rich Burlew, Inspired by Dungeons and Dragons 3.5e, it stars a group of adventurers called, well, The Order of the Stick, as they try to stop an evil lich by the name of Xykon from attaining the power of an extradimensional being called The Snarl. Xykon himself and the Arc Villain of Book 5, General Tarquin, are already listed, but I think one of the side books has a candidate.

Good Deeds Gone Unpunished is one of the comic's prequel books, focusing on the citizens of Azure City. The book's longest story, "How The Paladin Got His Scar", focuses on O-Chul as he and his allies, Saha Kapoor, Zhou Bo and Hinjo work together to figure out why hobgoblins are attacking their villages all of a sudden. The reason? A very, very racist noble who leads Azure City's ultimate task force, the Sapphire Guard.

     Commander Gin-Jun 

Who is Commander Gin-Jun? What has he done?

Gin-Jun is an Azure City noble and the commander of the Sapphire Guard, Azure City's elite forces, at the time of the story. When Gin-Jun was new to the Sapphire Guard, he partook in a raid on a goblin village - the same one Redcloak lived in - in an attempt to kill The Dark One's high priest. However, as he later discovered, what they needed to get was the Crimson Mantle, which now had a new bearer which escaped. Gin-Jun then spent the next 22 years trying to hunt down the Mantle's bearer... at any cost.

In the story's present day, Gin-Jun has been leading the Sapphire Guard around to try and find the mantle in various hobgoblin settlements. In order to this, he and the Guard lay waste to the villages, which sets off the survivors to begin raiding settlements near Azure City in revenge, one such attack killing all but three members of O-Chul's platoon. Seeing that the only settlement that is blocked off from divination is the Gorge Ravine Outpost, Gin-Jun and the Guard make their way there to claim the Mantle once and for all, killing any hobgoblins that stand in his way. Just before he storms the main gate, he encounters O-Chul and the two try to convince the other to stand down. When that doesn't work, Gin-Jun sics Miko Miyazaki on O-Chul and lets the battle play out before he decides to charge and kill those in the way and storm the outpost before the reservoir collapses on him on the guard, rendering him unable to charge into the outpost thanks to the muddied path. Gin-Jun angrily orders a retreat in response, intending to return later to finish the job.

Later that night, Gin-Jun summons a celestial in order to help raid the outpost the next morning. He at first tries to get her to kill everyone before she rejects the idea, and after destroying the town is rejected, he gets her to agree to destroying the gates. Knowing that the goblins will try to attack when they're attacked, Gin-Jun eagerly awaits the opportunity to slaughter them all. When morning comes, Gin-Jun and the Guard prepare to storm the fort before they are met with O-Chul and his allies, who promptly challenge him to Gyeoltu, a duel of honor. Gin-Jun grudgingly accepts to save face, not wanting to look like a coward even if it delays his mission.

Instead of actually dueling though, O-Chul uses this opportunity to speak to the other members of the Sapphire Guard and convince them to reject the mission that Gin-Juin dragged them into, much to Gin-Jun's growing anger. Unfortunately for him though, thanks to the assistance of things like the hobgoblin general being brought to the Gyeoltu, allowing them to see just how alike Gin-Jun and the general are; O-Chul's words reach them, and they decide to not go through with the attack. This enrages Gin-Jun, who proceeds to try and murder O-Chul even though he is unarmed and already threw his sword aside, giving him his trademark scar. This promptly gets him evicted to the Guard by his subcommander.

Gin-Jun, in a last ditch effort to fulfill his mission, goes to the celestial and tries to get her to break down the gate, but since he's no longer part of the Guard, she refuses. Having nothing left to lose, Gin-Jun charges back to where O-Chul is in revenge for making him get expelled from the Guard, stabbing Zhou Bo in the stomach when she gets in the way. He proceeds to try and kill O-Chul, but Miko snaps his neck for attacking someone who wasn't part of the duel, killing him.

Freudian Excuse or Mitigating Qualities?

The main thing to discuss here is his obsession with obtaining the Crimson Mantle. He claims that it's for the greater good, but as noted by O-Chul, he's much more driven by his hatred of goblinoids than obtaining the Mantle. He's directly told by the hobgoblin general and cleric that they have no clue what the Crimson Mantle is, and yet he calls them liars and insists that it must be in the outpost. The general even dismisses it as an excuse to hate them.

Of course, being a racist Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist by itself wouldn't be enough to qualify him if he does think it's for the greater good and wants to save others. Except... he really doesn't. Case in point, these two exchanges right here:

O-Chul: Don't you see what is happening? Your raids on these outposts are provoking these hobgoblins into attacking our farmers! You must stop this, or innocent lives will be lost!
Gin-Jun: If they choose to commit violence to avenge their worthless dead, then the weight of that decision rests on their consciousnesses, not ours. And if these savages are a threat to commoners such as yourself, all the more reason to thin their numbers. Stand. Aside.

O-Chul: [The hobgoblins] have only attacked our villages in retaliation for the unprovoked raids on their territory. If you stop striking them, they will stop striking back.
Gin-Jun: That is not my concern. The defense of the border villages is your responsibility, which you are neglecting by interfering with my holy mission.

Both of these exchanges, especially the second, show that when Gin-Jun is told that his actions are endangering people, his response is "tough shit, deal with it, not my problem", giving no fucks about the people he's supposed to be protecting are dying from his actions.

And by the end, any veneer of good intentions completely crumbles as he tries to murder O-Chul for turning the Guard away from mission and then for getting him removed from the Guard, even though it was his own fault that he got removed for attacking a defenseless citizen. The story even takes the time to show how much like the hobgoblin general he is; both are equally as racist and war-hungry.

Overall, the reasoning of searching for the Mantle is just an excuse to indulge in his hatred, with Gin-Jun representing exactly what was wrong with the Sapphire Guard of old.

Heinousness?

Hoo boy. The Order of the Stick has a high, high standard. Xykon and Tarquin, the two currently listed candidates are hella nasty and definitely stack the standard high. Characters who don't qualify include:

  • Redcloak: Xykon's right-hand, who is involved in several of the things Xykon himself does, plus has awful moments of his own like massacring the Azure City resistance and forcing Tsukiko's wights to drain her to death
  • Malack: Tarquin's advisor who intends to turn the Empire of Blood into a place where thousands are sacrificed daily after Tarquin passes
  • Hel: The Northern Goddess of the Dead, who tries to kill everyone in the world so that she gains ownership of the dwarven souls and becomes the Top God of the Northern Pantheon
  • The IFCC: Gave Vaarsuvius a soul splice with which they kill one fourth of the world's black dragon population, who also plan to destroy the world for unknown reasons
  • Nale: Becomes a Serial Killer with a good amount of victims in Cliffport as part of his plot to replace Elan

Lots of nasty competition. It is worth noting though that Gin-Jun has less resources than all of these characters minus Nale, who he is worse than anyways. Commander of the Sapphire Guard is a notable position, but compared to an epic-level sorcerer lich, the high priest of the Goblinoid god, the two puppetmasters behind the Empire of Blood, a trio of powerful fiends and a literal god, he comes up short.

And with what he has, he is plenty nasty. Putting aside his role as a participant on the raid on Redcloak's village, he has a lot of blood on his hands as a result of the raids. We directly see a destroyed outpost of the hobgoblins as well as the pissed off survivors of the attack who retaliate and attack Azure City citizens, with one attacking wiping out almost all of O-Chul's troops. Given the fact that we know that multiple attacks have happened, and that he has attacked multiple outposts, a lot of blood has been spilled because of his actions. Plus, the Gorge Ravine Outpost he's so eager to raid has a lot of hobgoblins living in it, with both Zhou Bo and Hinjo expressing shock at how many there are.

While the attacks on citizens definitely weren't intended by Gin-Jun, when he's told about it, he's completely apathetic and continues on his mission anyways, even though he knows it will endanger the people he is supposed to be protecting. This is ultimately what I think pushes him over the line; the fact that he learns his quest is endangering his people and continues on with it anyways, knowing full well what will happen if he presses on. He's also just as eager as the war-hungry hobgoblin general to enter a war with a species he despises, further putting the villages under Azure City's control under risk to sate his own bloodlust.

Verdict?

For his standing, Gin-Jun is supremely awful. But if what he does is enough for him to qualify, I'll let you all decide.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
carduinal-cyn Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp from Toboe Shrine (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp
#51622: Jul 30th 2024 at 6:46:28 PM

Switching to a [tup] on Selin.

Weak [tup] yes to Hegman.

Abstain on the Boogeyman, an SCP-level threat like this would be expected to have a fairly high body count.

"I would never consider YOU a waste of personnel." — Kawarino
Ghal-Sur Since: Dec, 2021
#51623: Jul 30th 2024 at 8:02:30 PM

[tup]Hegman, Train (forces to rape women for a decade and is a baby trafficker, yes he is a comfortable keeper). About Gin-Jun, is he seeking to destroy all hobgoblins?

Of course [tup]Selina, great job Master N! It's a pleasure to have another CM from you. Is the game good? Just interested.

TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#51624: Jul 30th 2024 at 8:17:23 PM

[up] The story doesn't say that he is, but at the same time he's eagerly trying to massacre the quite large population of the Gorge Ravine Outpost as well as committing an action that he knows would result in a war between Azure City and the hobgoblins where he will get to kill more of them.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
Ghal-Sur Since: Dec, 2021
#51625: Jul 30th 2024 at 8:34:22 PM

[up]Thank you, in that case, yes to him.


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