TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Complete Monster Proposal Thread

Go To

Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

WilyGryphon Since: Apr, 2023
#50876: Jul 25th 2024 at 5:16:19 AM

[tup] Master Mold, with a very high onscreen body count including some very notable characters

PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#50877: Jul 25th 2024 at 5:19:50 AM

Yes to Moldy as well, sorry for missing Crowster!

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#50878: Jul 25th 2024 at 5:20:13 AM

Leaning yes on Dimentio, but why does he let them go before...killing himself (??)?

Also, I still lean yes on Master Mold, but Emerald brought up some good points.

PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#50879: Jul 25th 2024 at 5:22:59 AM

Also @fanman, I think you're good there! Sounds like a classic case of someone being foretold to do great evil and delighting in the prospect.

TommySlenderman Since: Jul, 2024
#50880: Jul 25th 2024 at 5:42:16 AM

[up][up] The reason he lets them go , is because tbe whole choice he gave them is a sadistic choice. They could either go back to their world and probably die because of the worldwide war dimentio caused , or they could stay for an eternity at Count Bleck's castle.

Both were awful choices. They choose the first option of facing the war. He decided to crush any hope the group had by killing luigi and by extention himself , for an added bonus of cruelty.

Edited by TommySlenderman on Jul 25th 2024 at 5:43:15 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#50881: Jul 25th 2024 at 5:57:54 AM

I'd say Crow gave a solid, reasonable rebuttal to Emerald's points and I maintain the Master Mold has the personality to count from both the cruelty and the quote it delivers in the vision which is explicitly meant to be of the Master Mold.

Got us a new one to discuss from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2012)! This needs no real introduction, it's the Ninja turtles, y'all know the schtick by now, so let's just jump right in:

Who is Kraang Subprime? What has he done?

  • The Dragon to Kraang Prime and a Laughably Evil nutbar played by Gilbert Gottfried himself, Kraang Subprime was once the heroic Utrom warrior "Knight", considered perhaps the greatest in Utrom history. But when the mad scientist Kraang (Prime) experimented on and created a Hive Mind of enslaved Utroms, Knight willingly betrayed the Utroms and threw in with the Kraang in the brutal war, becoming Subprime.
  • A master spy and the on-the-ground operator for Kraang missions, Subprime is revealed to have personally found Professor Honeycutt and bought his brilliant device "the Heart of Darkness". Though Honeycutt believed the device, capable of creating black hole energy, intended for good, Subprime used the Heart as a WMD against the Kraang's enemy the Triceratons, annihilating their entire world and leaving only a single colony of Triceratons left.
  • Subprime oversees a variety of Kraang operations, but he takes center stage when he is revealed to be April O'Neil's "best friend", Irma. Subprime used the form of a human girl to play as April's friend for over a year, getting close to her and using what she knows to feed the Kraang's invasions plot and crimes against the Turtles. When April finally brings Irma to the Turtles' lair, Subprime drops the act and ambushes the lair, decimating it and sending out the order to Kraang to begin a wide-scale invasion of New York City.
  • Though seemingly killed by Splinter, Subprime survives (this gonna happen a lot) and goes on to help orchestrate the mass-kidnapping of millions of New Yorkers, who are mutated into Kraang slaves and forced into labor in Dimension X. Subprime personally oversees the construction of a "mutagen missile" that he plans to launch, which will mutate all of humankind into monstrous Kraang slaves. The Turtles and Mighty Mutanimals thwart the plot and head into Dimension X to save the millions of people there, to which Subprime tries his damnedest to stop them before he is seemingly killed.
  • Returning again, Subprime repairs the dangerous Technodrome with Prime and plans to stage a new invasion of Earth, but the Triceratons show up and kill them both for their crimes against the Triceraton homeworld; the villain's deaths are reversed when the Turtles have to go back in time and prevent the Triceratons from attacking and destroying Earth, so yet again, Subprime returns.
  • Capturing the Salamandrian warriors Mona Lisa and G'Throkka for being allies of the Turtles, Subprime uses the Turtles to find the hidden base of the surviving Utrom resistance. Subprime invades the base and tries to kill the rest of the Utroms, kidnapping Queen and preparing to torture her for information before the Turtles and Utrom Bishop show up to save her. Bishop duels Subprime, despairing that the once-great Utrom hero Knight has become a traitor and a monster, to which Subprime just gleefully mocks Bishop. Subprime is seemingly killed in the battle, yaddayadda.
  • In his final chronological appearance, Subprime is revealed to be behind the '87 Krang, who was banished to the 2D dimension by his cousin Subprime years ago for being a failure. Subprime tasks Krang to find a way to destroy all Turtles across every dimension for good, so Krang develops a device that will bomb the Prime Turtles' dimension and wipe out all Turtles...of course, Krang is an idiot and stupidly sets the bombs to destroy the entire dimensions without considering the ramifications, unbeknownst to Subprime.
  • Subprime duels the Turtles and tries to ensure the bombs go off and every Turtle in every dimension is wiped from existence, but the Turtles stop the bombs. They clarify to Subprime that the bombs would have wiped out every living thing in the dimensions—Subprime, infuriated at Krang for nearly "destroying the dimensions we've been trying to mutate for thousands of years!", beats Krang for idiocy and once again banishes him to the '87 dimension for failure. Subprime gets into a final fight with the Turtles before he is kicked through a portal that leaves him stranded, harmless for good in the world of Mirage Turtles.

Mitigating features?

He's outraged at Krang's "didn't think this through" omnicide plot, but it's totally one of pragmatism and fury that the dimensions he wants to rule were nearly destroyed. And while he early in the episode welcomes Krang back to the fold, the end has him reveal he always thought Krang was a screw-up and a moron before he beats him down and banishes him again.

Subprime is the only Kraang who willingly joined up with Prime, but there's nothing really suggesting a disqualifying loyalty. The very, very limited reactions they have, Subprime is just bragging of the "glory of the Kraang!" with very little focus on any kind of kinship or redeeming care for his boss, just an appreciation for the position of power he has.

Lastly, Subprime is hilariously hammy (in no small part due to his voice actor), has a Small Name, Big Ego, and is subject to repeated defeats that seem to kill him, but it never diminishes his threat and he's always, always dangerous at the end of the day.

Heinousness?

While this show has a high standard and threatening Earth is pretty common, Subprime is plenty bad as the top agent of the Kraang, sharing in the brunt of listed-CM Prime's worst actions...he personally orchestrated the annihilation of the Triceraton homeworld, pretends to be April's friend for a year only to cruelly betray her, orders multiple invasions of New York, tries to launch a mutagen missile to turn all of humanity into Kraang slaves, oversees the enslavement of millions of New Yorkers, willingly betrayed the Utroms he was the hero of and tried to wipe them out, and tries to carry out the destruction of every Turtle across every dimension that he plans to eventually mutate into more Krang realms. All while being a horrendous Bad Boss to his minions and even own cousin.

Final Verdict?

If I had a nickel for every time in 2024 I proposed a Kra(a)ng who was The Dragon to an already-listed Kra(a)ng, I'd have two nickels.

Which isn't a lot, but it's weird it happened twice.

Edited by Ravok on Jul 25th 2024 at 5:58:18 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#50883: Jul 25th 2024 at 6:00:59 AM

Yes to another Kraang who's The Dragon to another Kraang proposed by Revoke [lol]

jlvs200s from The Netherlands (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: I miss my wife, Tails
#50884: Jul 25th 2024 at 6:01:30 AM

[tup] Dimentio, Kraang Subprime and leaning "yes" on Genosha Master Mold.

"The time has come for every last Shoppe... No! The time has come for the DREAM KINGDOM to bow down to me! Gotcha ! Hee-hee!" | He/Him
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#50885: Jul 25th 2024 at 6:04:12 AM

Ah, I missed the rebuttal.

I'll give a yes to Subprime.

Though couldn't he create havoc in the Mirage setting?

Tommy, is there a link to the work?

Edited by ACW on Jul 25th 2024 at 9:07:20 AM

Evanpotter09 Since: Sep, 2023 Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#50887: Jul 25th 2024 at 6:12:19 AM

There's not much bad he can do in the Mirage universe in theory, he's knocked through without his robot body, there's no Kraang to order around, and the technology in the Mirage universe that we see isn't particularly advanced...it tbh likely wasn't meant to be a perma-defeat, much like his many, many other seeming "defeats", but for whatever reason they never came back to him, so last we get is he's trapped over there [lol]

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#50888: Jul 25th 2024 at 6:15:38 AM

[tup]Kraang subprime

First and perhaps only cm by the late Gilbert Gottfried?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Revenant30 Since: Sep, 2023
#50889: Jul 25th 2024 at 6:25:03 AM

[tup] Iago...I mean Kraang Subprime

Edited by Revenant30 on Jul 25th 2024 at 6:25:54 AM

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#50891: Jul 25th 2024 at 6:32:05 AM

I who is known as EmperorGeode am giving [tup] to the Kraang who is known as Kraang Subprime.

Edited by EmperorGeode on Jul 25th 2024 at 6:32:33 AM

TommySlenderman Since: Jul, 2024
#50892: Jul 25th 2024 at 6:32:50 AM

[up][up][up][up][up][up] Marioronpa can be found here : https://www.instagram.com/marioronpa/?hl=el .

Edited by TommySlenderman on Jul 25th 2024 at 6:34:15 AM

Dude-of-Wealth-And-Taste (Apprentice) Relationship Status: Become a part of me!
#50893: Jul 25th 2024 at 7:08:15 AM

[tup] to Kraang Subprime, the greatest spying in all Dimension X

Till all are one.
LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime Raz (Season 2) Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
#50894: Jul 25th 2024 at 7:11:58 AM

[tup] Dimentio (a crossover between two of my favorite game franchises? Might have to check that out.) and Kraang (first CM played by Gilbert Gottfried, right?).

I don't want the world, I just want your half.
IvanTheBronyKaiju The Autobot Avatar from Cybertron Since: Mar, 2021 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
The Autobot Avatar
#50895: Jul 25th 2024 at 7:13:24 AM

[tup] to Master Mold and Kraang Prime

Wassup homie? Nothin' much.
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#50896: Jul 25th 2024 at 7:16:31 AM

[tup] Kraang Subprime

It's Spooky Month!
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#50897: Jul 25th 2024 at 7:21:55 AM

[tup] Iag- I mean Digit- I mean Kraang Prime.

Edited by Beast on Jul 25th 2024 at 7:22:08 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#50899: Jul 25th 2024 at 8:00:23 AM

[tup] Krang Subprime. RIP Gilbert Gottfried.

carduinal-cyn Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp from Toboe Shrine (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Quasi-official Pretty Cure Entry Pimp
#50900: Jul 25th 2024 at 8:25:29 AM

Anyone mind if I reserve Wonderful Pretty Cure!? I personally don't think there's gonna be a keeper, but just in case.

(Edit: It is currently airing, and it'll keep going until February-ish IIRC.)

Edited by carduinal-cyn on Jul 25th 2024 at 11:26:02 AM

"I would never consider YOU a waste of personnel." — Kawarino

Total posts: 60,500
Top