Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
Adversary.
I think I may have found an overlooked Lost candidate.
The work?
Lost is a 2004 ABC series focusing on a group of survivors stranded on a mysterious island following a plane crash. The candidate here is Tariq, a former boss of Sayid Jarrah's who was involved in the events that first drove Sayid to become a torturer.
Who is he?
Tariq is a former superior of Sayid's in the Republican Guard, seen in a flashback in Season 2's "One of Them." He's first shown during a bombing raid on their headquarters during the Gulf War, ordering Sayid and his men to stay where they are and destroy incriminating documents despite the threat of being killed by the American forces. When the American troops enter, Sayid lies and claims Tariq has already fled, but they don't believe him and Tariq is captured. He is interrogated by the Americans for information on the whereabouts of a captive American pilot, but mocks the interrogators, who decide to turn to Sayid for help.
At first Sayid is reluctant to turn against Tariq, but he's then told Tariq ordered a sarin gas attack on a village where Sayid's relatives lived, with women and children being among those killed. He then tries to convince Tariq to give up the pilot's location, but Tariq calls Sayid a disgrace, ordering him to take his own life and "die with what little honor you have left." Sayid tries to reason with Tariq that the information means nothing to him, but Tariq continues to taunt him, telling Sayid he wouldn't dare torture him. He turns out to be dead-wrong there, as Sayid tortures him off-screen, later revealing that Tariq admitted that the captive pilot had already been executed.
Heinous standard?
He has relatively few resources compared to the show's other villains but still stands out as he's a mass murderer who gassed a village full of women and children, which is a rare crime by the show's standards (and judging from the victims' prolonged screaming it was a horrific way to go). While other villains in the show have committed mass murder they aren't indicated to have killed women and children on that scale, with the Others' purge of the Dharma Initiative only taking place after women and children were evacuated from the island.
He's also a Bad Boss who would gladly see his subordinates die senselessly, forbidding them to flee from the air raid and ordering Sayid to kill himself for little reason (something he himself refuses to do, showing he values his own life above anyone else's). The attack on Sayid's village isn't Offscreen Villainy either, as Sayid is shown graphic video footage showing its residents screaming and falling dead.
Redeeming traits?
The only possible one is that he refers to Sayid's father as a "great hero" but in context he says this when he's trying to shame Sayid into killing himself, so it's likely just manipulation. Also Sayid torturing him isn't played for sympathy, and it happens offscreen so we don't see how bad it was.
Verdict?
I'd say yes.
Edited by Javertshark13 on Jul 22nd 2024 at 5:04:18 AM
Edited by SarenApologist on Jul 22nd 2024 at 2:25:13 AM
Here's my home address, social media, and bank account!I think I’m okay with Tariq? My concern is that in Sayid’s flashbacks in particular, there are a lot of references to terrorists committing bombings (both of his two season one centric episodes revolve around terrorist bombings, one being torturing someone for info in the aftermath of one and the other trying to prevent one) but Tariq is the only one whose carnage really gets any focus. I’m binging the series again right now ironically enough, but I think I can say yes!
@Troper/ACW oh, sorry for cluttering the forum, then.
Here's my home address, social media, and bank account!![]()
![]()
Dude:
Like I said, I'm binging the show now so I can't necessarily confirm or deny this, but if it's accurate (and I have no reason to think it's not), then yeah, it's the only terrorist attack I can think of that actually gets detail and focus.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jul 22nd 2024 at 5:15:03 AM
![]()
You can see the scene here. The actual deaths aren't shown to the viewer but the audio of the victims screaming leaves little to the imagination.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZKUE3kZHQ4
Edited by Javertshark13 on Jul 22nd 2024 at 5:20:39 AM
Can I delete my image recommendation post? I feel it's cluttering the forum too much, to say nothing of the fact that it's not even in the forum I'm supposed to post it in. Asking because I know deleting effortposts is a bit of a no-no, here.
Here's my home address, social media, and bank account!And with the refresher from the link, I'm 100% okay with Tariq now (the show does frame the video of the actual attack as a Gory Discretion Shot, but we hear dozens of screams and see a lot of people going about their day right before it). Great work Javert, I love getting to talk about this show!
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jul 22nd 2024 at 5:23:41 AM
Tropers/ACW Thanks for the understanding, my mistake. I'll send a link when a new forum opens up.
Here's my home address, social media, and bank account!It may be worth noting that at the end of the episode Sayid confronts the man who got him to torture Tariq and says torture is something nobody should be forced to do to another, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't make Tariq sympathetic, it just shows Sayid's own sense of right and wrong.
Edited by Javertshark13 on Jul 22nd 2024 at 5:56:20 AM
Hey , i am the one that made the Sark EP , upon reconsideration, I believe I underestimated the impact of Sark's centuries of torture had on him. Multiple characters who knew him before his ordeal, as well as the "Word of God," confirm that the torture shattered his spirit and mind. It traumatized him to the extent that he permanently suppressed his memories of the event. His ruthlessness and perversion are attempts to keep those memories at bay. According to the Word of God, if his mental wounds were reopened, he would completely lose his mind. While Word of God is generally taken with a grain of salt, what we see in the games supports this claim. So , i think i take back my proposal.
Edited by TommySlenderman on Jul 22nd 2024 at 3:00:05 AM

Also I'm good with Gertrude