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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

NovaDemon666 Since: Apr, 2024
#45551: May 31st 2024 at 5:27:28 AM

My Writeup: PIGGY fanfic PIGGY:The Whole Bloody Deal: Ruvius Rat is even worse than his original Antflix counterpart. In this series, he is the murderous and power-hungry Mayor of Lucella and the treacherous father of Ollie and Raven Rat, who has succumbed to greed, lust for power, and a desire to be the one god amongst a new Lucella written in his totalitarian image. Later, he took over Lucella and crushes it under his heel as revenge for Maximus's childhood success at the cost of his own. After that, he killed his wife after his daughter Raven failed to meet his standards compared to Ollie, who he beats constantly due to his treacherous behaviour. After going on a rampage with Raven which kills all of Mateo's siblings just to spite his long-time rival Maximus, he helps TIO begin the infection in Lucella by corrupting Mr P's cure for his sick wife, causing the countless deaths depicted in the entire city, ultimately causing The Battle of Lucella, which costs him eventually his own daughter Raven, as well as multiple allies, creating snuff films on murdering the infected members of his own family. His final plan comes into effect by seeking to use Mateo's blood to control the infected and then goes on a rampage during The Battle of Lucella once Mateo escapes, murdering Giraffy just for being in his way, culminating his sadistic ways in trying to kill Mr P for his interference.

Edited by NovaDemon666 on May 31st 2024 at 1:39:06 PM

AmateurStorytime Just a starting content creator from Home Since: Mar, 2024
Just a starting content creator
#45552: May 31st 2024 at 5:32:07 AM

[up]If you want to pothole something, the link has to be a WikiWord. For example, type YouDirtyRat to get You Dirty Rat!.

Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#45553: May 31st 2024 at 6:12:57 AM

Is there a link to the fanfic?

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#45555: May 31st 2024 at 7:02:31 AM

[tup] Mister Sinister.

Why didn't he qualify with just the X-men original series alone? Was it because of HS?

I have two(well technically three videos since one of them is a two parter, but only one part of the two parter matters here) what-ifs from a Star Wars youtuber I think we've never covered before, through given who this obviously is, should be quick

Edited by xie323 on May 31st 2024 at 7:25:19 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#45556: May 31st 2024 at 7:11:05 AM

In the original the worst he does is back Apocalypse's wipe out all of time scheme (which is more pocy's thing).

This gives him more flashes of his own.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#45557: May 31st 2024 at 7:29:23 AM

So here is the first of two Palpatine effortposts coming from what-ifs by the same Star Wars youtuber(whom I'm suprised we never covered) as I promised.

What is the work?

What If Anakin Skywalker NEVER Killed Count Dooku? is a video by the Star Wars Youtuber Fantasy Folklore where despite Palpatine's efforts to move Anakin further to the dark side during his staged capture, Anakin refuses to kill Dooku. Dooku spills the beans about who he is working for and the causes of the war to the Jedi upon their return to Courscant, which in turn makes Anakin fully distrusting of Palpatine. The Jedi, also connecting the dots as to why Palpatine was trying to be close to Anakin all these years, plan their move to take down Palpatine once and for all.

What does Palpatine do now that his charade is busted?

The Jedi Council splits into two with one group containing Yoda, Windu, Obi-Wan and Anakin, going to confront Palpatine and another group going to testify before the Senate and justify their actions once Palpatine is killed. When the Jedi arrives to confront Palpatine, he uses Force Lightning to distract the Jedi and jumps out the window, killing a driver and stealing his car. He then immediately activates Order 66, leading to the deaths of thousands of Jedi across the galaxy. He also commands Grevious to send a Separatist fleet to Courscant to back him up(since Obi-Wan never went to Utapau, Grevious was still alive). The Clones go on a killing spree across Coruscant targeting any Jedi they find and then storm the Senate and kill off the Jedi that were to testify against Palpatine. Palpatine and the Clones go to the Jedi temple and massacre multiple Jedi. During the battle, Obi-Wan and Mace Windu, along with Depa Billaba are killed, but not before the former two manages to wound Palpatine. Palpatine offers Anakin one last chance to submit. When Anakin refuses, Palpatine zaps him with a extremely large dose of force lightning, almost killing him. However, Anakin remembers that Padme and his unborn children are waiting for him at home and manage to get back up. Taking advantage of the wound inflicted by Obi-Wan and Windu, Anakin manages to defeat Palpatine, placing him under arrest. Padme and Bail show up at the temple and reveal that they overrode the Inhibitor Chips with Order 65. Palpatine is moved to a jail cell where he would very certainly be executed after being put on trial for his crimes. Grevious' fleet arrives too late to save him, and peace is restored to the galaxy after Anakin deals with Grevious.

Mitigating Qualities?

Palpatine

Heinousness Standard?

Palpatine

Verdict?

Palpatine

Edited by xie323 on May 31st 2024 at 7:34:55 AM

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime Raz (Season 2) Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
#45559: May 31st 2024 at 7:33:57 AM

[tup] Wade, the Goblin Queen, Randall, and of course, Palpy

Weak [tup] Bane-danuki

[tdown] Genosha Leader and Johnny

Edited by LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime on May 31st 2024 at 7:34:51 AM

I don't want the world, I just want your half.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#45561: May 31st 2024 at 8:00:00 AM

[tup] Not!Madelyne Pryor & Papa Palpatine

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#45562: May 31st 2024 at 8:17:21 AM

Ok, now the second Fantasy Folklore video.

What is the video?

What if Palpatine Wasn’t Elected As Supreme Chancellor in The Phantom Menace?, one of the earliest what-if videos by Fantasy Folklore, and as you can see it isn't very polished in contrast to this guy's later videos. It shows what happens if Palpatine lost the election to Bail Organa in Episode I. Let's say he's quite pissed.

What does he do in response?

He still creates the Clones, still plans things behind the scenes to start the Clone Wars and corrupt Anakin, and disgusted at Chancellor Organa and later Chancellor Mothma's attempts at reform, deliberately engineers things from behind to give the Separatists more of an advantage. This results in massive defeats for the Republic when the war starts. Eventually all these defeats gets blamed on Mon Mothma's leadership and she is voted out in a vote of no confidence, and so is her successor. Palpatine's loyalists then vote him into power and he sends commands to Dooku to essentially throw in the towel, allowing the Republic to sweep through the Separatists.

The next sequence of events play out similar to Episode III albeit with a happier ending. With Anakin corrupted, Palpatine sends Anakin to kill everybody at the Temple and executes Order 66, leading to the deaths of most of the Jedi. He still fights Yoda and manages to survive the encounter. However, because Padme and Obi-Wan weren't as close friends as they are in the canon timeline, Obi-Wan is never aware of her marriage to Anakin or even have an inch of suspicion, as such he never goes with Padme to Mustafar when she tries to get Anakin to see sense. As a result Anakin is actually made to see sense by Padme when his horrific actions are laid out before him. He returns to Coruscant and finds Yoda and Obi-Wan, and they kill Palpatine together. After that, a guilt-striken Anakin cuts himself off from the force out of shame, wanting nothing to do with the Jedi ever again. He retires with Padme to Naboo where they live happily ever after with their children.

Mitigating Qualities

Palpatine

Heinousness Standard

Palpatine, made even worse since here in addition to doing everything he does in canon, he is willing to destroy the entire Republic by engineering the entire Clone Wars to result in a Republic defeat if he is not voted in chancellor, with responsibility for these defeats being pinned at the Mothma administration, with him only stopping when he gets the power he wants and tells Dooku to roll over since he has no more use for him or the Separatists.

Verdict

Palpatine.

Edited by xie323 on May 31st 2024 at 8:44:37 AM

Phantom25 Since: Feb, 2020
#45563: May 31st 2024 at 8:18:45 AM

[tup] to Palpatine and Palpatine. I've noticed he's getting a lot of proposals these days.

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#45564: May 31st 2024 at 8:19:43 AM

Well given that we kinda relaxed the rules for fanfic EPs(or alternatively they were always that relaxed) and the fact he's pretty much the poster boy for this trope as far as western pop cultural canon goes and arguably as far as this trope goes in general given how Johan got DQd a while back. and synonymous with absolute evil so....

Edited by xie323 on May 31st 2024 at 8:55:20 AM

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#45565: May 31st 2024 at 8:21:07 AM

[tup] Palpatine

[up][up] I feel it was only matter of time until people realised Star Wars what if videos are goldmine of Palpatine versions.

jlvs200s from The Netherlands (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: I miss my wife, Tails
#45566: May 31st 2024 at 8:26:24 AM

[tup] Tamura, Parkour Villain, Exar Kunnote , Lucifer, Bake-danuki, Blue Falcon, Goblin Queen, Wadenote  and another Sheevnote .

Edit: And would you look at it, another Palpatine EP dropped while I was still writing my votes. [tup] The Second Palpatine

[tdown] The Guard, Genosha Leader

Edited by jlvs200s on May 31st 2024 at 5:30:57 PM

"The time has come for every last Shoppe... No! The time has come for the DREAM KINGDOM to bow down to me! Gotcha ! Hee-hee!" | He/Him
xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#45567: May 31st 2024 at 8:27:27 AM

There are a couple of fanfics that I have in my mind of checking out. In general Star Wars fanfiction is a gold mine of Palpatine qualifiers because of how he is synonymous with absolute evil in both that franchise and Western pop culture(and arguably pop culture in general).

Especially if the fanfic in question is an Anidala fix-it fics, Anakin gets redeemed and leads the war against the Empire fix-it fics, Episode III fix-it fics in general, time travel fix-it fic, and alternative retellings of the Originals or mashups of the OT with Rebels and Rogue One fix-it fic, and Vader lives and has to do “actual” penace fix-it fics

Edited by xie323 on May 31st 2024 at 8:43:14 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#45568: May 31st 2024 at 8:31:15 AM

Like, when it comes to pop culture (at least in the West), probably the only one equal to Palps when it comes to representing pure evil is Joker (and maybe Red Skull).

Yes to this Palpatine.

Evanpotter09 Since: Sep, 2023 Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#45569: May 31st 2024 at 8:38:43 AM

[tup] to both Palpatine's. Serious question, how many CM incarnations does this guy have?

What, like it's hard?
xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#45570: May 31st 2024 at 8:41:16 AM

[tup] Exar Kun

Edited by xie323 on May 31st 2024 at 8:41:27 AM

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#45571: May 31st 2024 at 8:45:58 AM

[tup] Palpatine, Palpatine

It's like when people bring up a Fnaf fanwork, it's usually Afton. Fanworks tend to fall under 3 categories, an already listed character, someone with Adaptational Villainy or an OC.

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
AutumnLeaves Since: Mar, 2014
#45572: May 31st 2024 at 9:14:11 AM

Writeup for the creaky old woman:

Revenant30 Since: Sep, 2023
#45573: May 31st 2024 at 9:21:46 AM

[tup] Randall, Wade and all the other Palpies

Edited by Revenant30 on May 31st 2024 at 9:21:57 AM

TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#45574: May 31st 2024 at 9:39:25 AM

[tup] for both Sheevs.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
VoxAquila Since: Feb, 2011
#45575: May 31st 2024 at 9:44:47 AM

What is the work?

The work is Epic: The Musical, a crowded funded Rock Opera based on The Odyssey, which I truly believe could be the next Hamilton. It follows Odysseus on his long, long way back home to Ithaca after the victory at windy Troy, from the Lotus Eaters, to Polyphemus, Circe, and the Underworld. At the climax of The Ocean Saga, Odysseus is confronted by the Lord of the Oceans himself for a Villain Song called “Ruthlessness”…

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

Heralded by his own choir, Poseidon is the god sea, storms, earthquakes and horses…and the father of Polyphemus, the cyclops that Odysseus blinded. In his own words:

I'm left without a choice and without a doubt
Guess the pack of wolves is swimming with the shark now
I've gotta make you bleed, I need to see you drown
But before you go, I need to make you learn how
Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves
Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves
Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves.

In midst the song of Poseidon’s song he gives Odysseus a chance: apologize for his son’s “pain and all his cries”. Odysseus does, not even mentioning the blatant violations of Sacred Hospitality by the cyclops. Poseidon immediately goes back on his word. There are six hundred men in the ships, and after Poseidon, forty-three remain. He drowns them all while forcing Odysseus to watch.

As Poseidon approaches for the coup de grâce, Odysseus releases the rest of the wind in the bag given to him by Aeolus, spiriting the ship away – for now.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where it gets interesting. Epic’s composer Jorge Rivera-Herrans has described the epic as a battle between idealism vs cynicism, mercy vs ruthlessness – and as his song shows, Poseidon represents The Spartan Way.

Poseidon makes it clear “you totally could have avoid this had you just killed my son”. He cares nothing for Polyphemus, he is punishing Odysseus for his mercy – because “Ruthlessness is mercy upon our ourselves.” Even his demands for an apology are another trap – proof that Odysseus is too soft for the world that the gods have made.

The fact that he counted the exact number of men he drowned (the majority of which had nothing to do with Polyphemus’ blinding) pushes Poseidon over the moral event horizon.

It should be noted that Epic is unfinished, an Rivera-Herrans has teased a lyrics of a final confrontation between Odysseus and Poseidon

Are they bad enough?

Poseidon drowns five-hundred fifty-seven in the name of proving a point. Odysseus is softened considerably, trying to make things right with Polyphemus at first, and is haunted by the thought that “Ruthlessness' is mercy upon ourselves”. In this telling Poseidon is a cruel and petty tyrant with the largest single body count.

Final verdict?

What ever you decide - check out Epic: The Musical. It is indeed epic.

Edited by VoxAquila on May 31st 2024 at 9:47:52 AM


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