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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#45127: May 25th 2024 at 3:37:24 PM

Igor, fetch me the [tup]!

Also yes to Devil Hulk

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#45129: May 25th 2024 at 3:39:41 PM

Sure to Hulk and...yeah, I guess sure to Igor.

TheGrayFox ....Phenomenal from A Lovecraftian fishing village Since: Sep, 2011
....Phenomenal
#45132: May 25th 2024 at 4:06:23 PM

[tup] the Barber, Calder, Bronco-Tank, Devil Hulk, and Igor.

Abstaining on the Maestro for now.

There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
AutumnLeaves Since: Mar, 2014
#45133: May 25th 2024 at 4:11:02 PM

[tup] Igor.

I've just found another candidate in the sweet, moral, and child-friendly world of folk fairytales.

The eldest sister from the Koryak folk fairytale "The Five Sisters".

The Work

In "The Five Sisters", five sisters live by themselves and are doing okay, until the eldest sister starts behaving in a very suspicious manner.

The Character

The eldest sister turns out to be a serial killer who eats her victims. The younger sisters find it out just in time to learn that she's running out of food and plans to eat them after she finishes her current victim.

They escape while she is asleep, and the youngest sister puts protective wards on the entire house... forgetting the smoke-hole. The eldest sister turns into a crow and starts chasing them.

The youngest sister tells the others to sit on their deer, and with the help of her magic, the deer begin to fly. The eldest sister catches up with them and murders the second eldest, after which the youngest sister manages to kill her.

Mitigating Issues?

Um... no.

Early in the story, there's a mention that she "sighs very heavily" after returning from her nightly hunts, but even if it was a sign of remorse (and not of a full stomach), it was an Ignored Epiphany, since she later has no remorse in planning to kill her own sisters.

At one point, she eats normal food with her sisters, so there's not even any "can't eat normal food" excuse.

Agency?

There is the matter that the sisters and the narration call her kele, an evil spirit/creature, and it's unknown how she turned into one. However, in Koryak stories one can turn into a kele by willingly associating with their lot, so it's hardly a case of Brainwashed and Crazy in the vein of Remus Lupin or suchlike.

Moreover, when she talks to herself, she calls the other girls her sisters, so it's not a Kill and Replace case either.

Conclusion?

I'd still say keeper.

Edited by AutumnLeaves on May 25th 2024 at 2:12:57 PM

Snailfish Silver Shamrock's Halloween three from Santa Mira, California Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Silver Shamrock's Halloween three
#45134: May 25th 2024 at 4:38:32 PM

[tup]Devil Hulk. Ironic, because years later he turned out to be a pretty cool guy.

[tup]the cannibal sister as well, although I do question what would make this gal go "LOL I'm a monster now, better eat my sisters,not like their my only family".

All witches, all skeletons, all jack O Lanterns, gather round your TV set, put on your masks, and watch...watch the magic pumpkin, Watch...
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
AutumnLeaves Since: Mar, 2014
#45136: May 25th 2024 at 4:45:12 PM

[up][up]That's the thing — it isn’t stated. But in many "non-pasteurized" fairytales, it is often that brief: "okay, I'm going to marry a foreigner and make him kill my brothers, why not?", "oh, hey, husband, I'm actually the dreaded wicked witch"…

Edited by AutumnLeaves on May 25th 2024 at 2:45:36 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#45137: May 25th 2024 at 4:46:16 PM

[tup]Sister and Calder.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#45138: May 25th 2024 at 5:08:48 PM

[tup] for Igor, the sister and Devil Hulk. Funny given what would happen to his comic self.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
AwarenessBringer Since: Sep, 2017 Relationship Status: Singularity
#45139: May 25th 2024 at 7:29:01 PM

Didn't Igor seem remorseful after Dracula killed Frankenstein, though? I remember him calling out the doctor's name after seeing his body being carried away by the monster.

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#45140: May 25th 2024 at 7:44:17 PM

[up] Igor literally gives an Evil Grin and laughs when Dracula is about to kill Frankenstein, and smiles at the sight of him dying. And if you watch that scene closely, you can actually see a big smile on Igor's face as he exits the laboratory and sees the mob. It is a very brief Big-Lipped Alligator Moment, though. The assumption is that alerting the angry townsfolk was the intention.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on May 25th 2024 at 12:03:22 PM

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#45141: May 25th 2024 at 7:50:55 PM

[tup] to Devil Hulk (is there such a thing as retroactive Adaptational Villainy?), Igor and the sister

Starkrafty Since: Sep, 2017
#45142: May 25th 2024 at 9:21:35 PM

  • Sylva is the brutish, fanatical right-hand to Proximus. Completely lacking in even the charisma of his boss, Sylva is the boot with which Proximus uses to regularly Kick the Dog, regularly burning down villages to capture the survivors as slave, as well as capturing or slaughtering human groups who post a threat to Proximus. Sylva is only too willing to torture or murder anyone who resists him; he personally murders Noa's father, killed the friend of the lovable orangutan Raka, and later spitefully murders Raka as well while ensuring Noa is Forced to Watch.

TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#45143: May 25th 2024 at 10:02:09 PM

  • LIZZIE: Andrew Jackson Borden is the horribly abusive father to Lizzie and Emma. A thoroughly unpleasant man, Andrew keeps his daughters locked away in his home, showing no respect for their autonomy as he chases away any boys that come near the Borden household to keep them under his control. Not stopping with that however, Andrew repeatedly rapes Lizzie, eventually causing her sanity to degrade and driving her to kill him and her step-mother Abby.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
jlvs200s from The Netherlands (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: I miss my wife, Tails
#45144: May 25th 2024 at 11:32:35 PM

[tup] Devil Hulk and Igor

Edit: and to [tup] the cannibal sister too!

Edited by jlvs200s on May 26th 2024 at 3:46:45 PM

"The time has come for every last Shoppe... No! The time has come for the DREAM KINGDOM to bow down to me! Gotcha ! Hee-hee!" | He/Him
AwarenessBringer Since: Sep, 2017 Relationship Status: Singularity
#45145: May 26th 2024 at 1:27:20 AM

[tup]Igor it is then. The movie was underrated in my opinion as a kid. Maybe not faithful, but I liked it as a kid.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#45147: May 26th 2024 at 5:42:39 AM

  • Omega Men Vol.1: Harry Hokum is an ambitious human who somehow found his way to the Vega star system, where he joined the tyrannical Citadel for power. Introduced attempting to have Queen Kalista’s very being devoured by an alien parasite so that the Citadel could learn how to get through the force-field protecting her homeworld of Euphorix and completely destroy it. After the death of the Citadel’s Shadow Dictator, Harry uses the surviving Supreme Commander of Citadel as a figurehead and leads the Citadel into a bloody campaign to reclaim the control of Vega. He makes deals with powerful people or threatens destruction of the worlds, resulting in mass executions on the worlds who fall in line while he unleashes nuclear weapons on worlds who fight back. Harry has some of the Omega Men captured to use them as hostages to force Euphorix to surrender to him. After the death of the Supreme Commander, Harry enters a temporary truce while planning to use peace to rebuild his forces and conquer all of Vega. He tries to have Kalista assassinated and when the Spider Guild attacks the Vega system, Harry recalls all his forces to the planet he hid on and abandons worlds under his rule to be eaten by spiders. When he learns most of the Omega Men have disappeared, he plans to give the ones he could find to the spiders as food, blackmailing Omegan Zirral into sleeping with him by promising to free her friends, before sending them and a minion who failed him to be eaten by spiders.

[down] Yes.

Edited by EmperorGeode on May 26th 2024 at 5:56:26 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime Raz (Season 2) Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#45150: May 26th 2024 at 6:42:41 AM

[tup] for Calder, the barber, Bronco-Tank, Devil Hulk, Igor, and the eldest sister.

Edited by Tyk5919 on May 26th 2024 at 9:43:03 AM

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.

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