Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
I don't personally see that as an issue for Paragus? He never shows love for anyone else. So I don't see how him possibly being able to love someone is an issue. And while his past is bad, it does not quite explain the whole desire to use Broly to conquer the universe thing.
Edited by Snoketrope on Feb 11th 2023 at 9:14:49 AM
Bow to the PrototypeThe Simpsons could potentially have one, but it doesn't seem that likely. If it comes up, we can always take a look. It's nothing like South Park or Family Guy, where everyone is just as horrible either.
...I meant to post this over an hour ago. ._.;
English Dub Paragus.
Edited by Irene on Feb 11th 2023 at 11:27:03 AM
Shadow?
The Simpsons (and to a much more extreme degree, Family Guy) has child abuse as a Running Gag. It, Family Guy, and South Park run off of Black Comedy and Comedic Sociopathy way too much to have a Complete Monster. To my knowledge at least, I have little experience watching any of the three.
Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Feb 11th 2023 at 12:34:16 PM
Once Upon A Time.Looking at it, I can't see where the gorn ends and begin, despite the TV-14, so never mind. That said, while The Simpsons is somewhat of an Adult Show, it does have more serious moments overall and isn't nearly as comedic in the sociopath way(but still quite a bit), as it does actually have serious moments too. It's still pretty low, but it's not a 100% comedy like the other two are. That's kind of the core difference. That doesn't mean it could easily have a CM, it just means it's not downright impossible in the same way.
It's plausible at most some of the shorts don't have the normal continuity or running gags, but only those might be worth looking at. TV-14's rating doesn't mean much either, as that didn't exist wayyyyy back then, I think?
To be fair, with 34 seasons, it's easy to forget some moments. XD
Edited by Irene on Feb 11th 2023 at 12:44:03 PM
Shadow?
English Dup Paragus, Obed, Troy Hicks, Dr. Despicable, Khalid, Kaguya, Mercer, Bibidi, Yaibed, Lou, Cross, Love, Zlego, Jokokubo, Magistrate.
I won't fight Paragus going up. I can see the points made for him.
Just not quite personally comfortable with voting him up. The unambigious love he held for Broly for years, makes it a tricky sell for me.
With the mind control crown, it was originally intended to contain Broly's destructive ability. Paragus succumbing to the temptation of using Broly's power is relatively recent.
He still ultimately dismisses him as as nothing more then a thought while planning to leave him to die. Even if he loved him at one point, it's ultimately dead by the end.
EDIT:Okay and just rewatched some scenes.
Paragus explicitly says that once he got Broly under control 'An idea was born, if I could control Broly I could control the universe!'. So this was not a recent thing, the idea of using Broly as a weapon was something he gained when the device worked.
Edited by Snoketrope on Feb 11th 2023 at 11:13:52 AM
Bow to the PrototypeYeah okay seeing things again? He got the idea to use him to conquer the universe right after taking control of him. And while he says he wished it didn't have to come to this, he very bluntly follows it up saying "Now that I can't control you anymore, my dear son Broly, you are nothing to me. Your just a thought in the back of my head. I'm sorry son but you'll die with this planet"
Here's his death to see it.
Yes to dub Paragus. Hmm... I think the chances of Simpsons taking a villainous serious enough (like the Preschool Teacher) AND meeting the rather large heinous standard. (If we count the shorts, the Earth has literally been destroyed for fun, at one point. Saying the shorts AREN'T black comedy is like saying MLP will get a page outside of fanworks through G5 examples, the intent of MLP is nobody is above second chances and well, it's demographic is too light. To compete with Cosmos, they'd have to literally be responsible for the end of everything and somehow... I HIGHLY doubt that's going to happen)
tl;dr Simpsons will never have a villain that's both serious and heinous enough.
Edited by Klavice on Feb 11th 2023 at 11:54:46 AM
Here’s the writeup for Wracksaw. I decided not to include the name of the book in the writeup, seeing as he’ll almost certainly return.
The Last Kids on Earth and the Forbidden Fortress: Wracksaw is a merciless scientist whose cruelty knows no bounds. Wracksaw performs twisted experiments on living beings, relishing in their pain. Those that aren’t killed when he cuts them open are stitched together and made into deformed patchworks of life trapped in a state of perpetual suffering and misery. When the heroes find one of these amalgamations, it begs them to kill it. Wracksaw sadistically tortured and traumatised the heroic Blood Knight Skaelka and was responsible for the rampage of a creature called the Drakkor by horrifically experimenting on it and driving it into a blind rage. When his fortress is destroyed and it looks like he’s going to be sent back to his homeworld, Wracksaw attempts to trap his enemies in the other dimension with him.
EDIT: Yeah, he’d go after Thrull.
Edited by TheLaurelCrownedRaven on Feb 12th 2023 at 2:27:02 PM

I’m gonna go ahead and post this write up for Challus Mercer since there seems to be superconsensus and the three day voting period is close.
Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Feb 11th 2023 at 12:27:21 PM
Once Upon A Time.