Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
Yes to Goff and Saruman.
Edited by AmateurStorytime on Mar 18th 2024 at 2:54:04 AM
Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!- Carl Reissman
(Atlantis)
- The Night in Question: Ashley Henderson
(Bozzy)
- Cat Grant
(Overlord)
- Criminal Case: Grimsborough: Solomon Grimmes
(Platinum)
- League of Legends: OG!Singed
(Starkrafty)
- Fire Emblem: Gharnef
(umaprasis)
EDIT: Yes to Goff. The other candidate the judge or the warden?
Edited by ACW on Mar 18th 2024 at 5:55:44 AM
Easy yes to Ross, though this movie still has nothing on the time the series went to outer space.
Edited by Starkrafty on Mar 18th 2024 at 5:51:46 AM
Calling Rebel Moon: The Scargiver since its now month from release.
Got a new proposal, my first not from a fan work.
Path of the Midnight Sun is a 2023 RPG developed by Studio Daimon. Set on the continent of Arvium, the story revolves around the Demon King, an evil who rose 60 years prior to the game's events who is sealed inside a human called a Vassal to keep His power in check, repeating the process when he breaks out.
When the fourth Vassal, Princess Faratras Hoikade, kills her brainwashed countrymen in an attempt to defend her life, she must flee for her life before she is killed by her country out of the belief that she is the Demon King. To this end she's joined by her half-brother Hellios, Shiori, a blind priestess who can sense the malice in others (also Faratras' twin sister, not that either of them know it), an amnesiac knight named Suzaku, the princess of the country of Magnolia, Rya, and her retainer Cristoph. Also a greedy dwarf wolf named Luckos.
The Demon King, also known as Elias Lehmann, is easily bad enough, but I don't think He quite makes it as He doesn't quite shake off His redeeming qualities in the end, in my opinion. But there is someone else who does, someone who's responsible for the Demon King existing in the first place.
Her Holiness Soraya is the Matriarch and leader of Pylum, who is in truth the true Big Bad of the game and the one responsible for the circumstances behind Elias becoming the Demon King.
Over 60 years prior to the game's events, the Church under Soraya was working with Saito Pascal and Elias Lehmann to generate an infinite source of mana to heal people. Saito wished to create a cistern that would become the Manacrest, while Elias wanted to use a human vessel, the Vassals. Soraya didn't give a shit about this however, and wanted to use their research to become a god. To this end, she stole Saito's research and brutally killed Farilde II Hoikade in order to extract her blood for her goals. Elias, upon discovering the dead body of his love, went mad and turned into the Demon King, causing countless deaths whenever He would emerge in the next 60 years.
She then set out to use the Manacrest to gain the power of many strong beings, but only a descendant of Saito would be able to use the Manacrest to it's fullest potential, and Saito hid his family away from the Chruch's grasp. To find them, she founded the cult of Amaranth to look for Saito's family, abducting children to experiment and see if a Manacrest would react to them. This usually didn't end well for the children that received the Manacrest, and they searched for decades until they found Suzaku, Saito's grandson. A raid on an Amaranth fort in Midbar put an end to the experiments, but Soraya had found who she was searching for and he was taken by Pylum and the Holy Knights in order to keep an eye on him.
21 years prior to the events of the game, she assassinated the royals of Hoikade in order to take one of their kids to use in her ascension to power, but unfortunately for her she grabbed Shiori, the child that didn't have Elias attached to her due to Faratras being the Vassal. She still took advantage of this though and raised Shiori since she couldn't sense her malice, the power that she stole from Elias during the assassination thanks to her meddling with the Hoikadian Royal Blood.
In the present day, she makes her first appearance after Elias is fully restored and advises the heroes to defeat the Archdemons, Elias's strongest generals to absorb their powers as well as Elias's own powers, with the intent of absorbing them for herself. After they defeat all the Archdemons and Elias himself for good, they go to Soraya to confront her about some remaining mysteries, and when she gives answers that sound suspicious, she sees they know too much and takes the Manacrest by force and tries to kill them. They fight through her forces and Soraya herself, before she uses all the power in the Manacrest to become Daimon Puro and tries to end them personally. After a long and tough battle, the heroes who have suffered greatly as a result of her actions kill her and put an end to her mad plans for Arvium.
Freudian Excuse or Mitigating Factors?
Nope. Any goodness or caring she shows is completely subverted in the end as she reveals herself to be nothing but a power-hungry psychopath.
Heinousness?
Elias sets the standard high but Soraya is absolutely no slouch in this department. Being the leader of Amaranth, she has the unique crime of decades of child experimentation, which while we don't see it in action, we see in Chapter 6 several children being taken from Amaranth's clutches and Rya was a victim of theirs in the past. We directly see the scars she had from her being imprisoned there years after the fact, and she does not remember the experience fondly to the point of becoming testy and hostile when the party is in Midbar, where she was captured.
Add onto the fact that she assassinated Farilde as well as Faratras and Shiori's parents, oh and the fact that she is directly responsible for Elias becoming the Demon King means that she is responsible for all of the pain and death that he caused as well. She passes.
Verdict?
Keeper.
Edited by TurlesTheVegan on Mar 19th 2024 at 12:42:14 PM
Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.Dropping in from work to drop this off!
- Dark City (1998) 1992 script, by Alex Proyas (link
): The Mystery Men's leader, "Mr. Black", controls humanity by regularly having them "tuned" to rewrite their personalities and memories according to his wishes. When protagonist John White is awakened during his tuning to be remade into a Serial Killer, Black has the Mystery Men horribly murder White's intended victims—including a baby—to frame him, and drives an investigating inspector insane through sheer agony. Slowly skinning his own reluctant human scientist alive for betraying him, Black revives the corpses of the humans he killed to accuse White of murdering them and when White refuses to break, simply overpowers him in a psychic battle before tuning White with the monstrous personality.
- The original version of Singed, the Mad Chemist, started off as the deranged Bastard Understudy to Warwick, using innocent people—or himself, whenever he was in short supply of victims—as subjects for his agonizing experiments. After Warwick was transformed into a beast by Soraka, Singed eagerly stepped into his erstwhile master's role as Noxus' chief Mad Scientist. Singed used the invasion of Ionia as the chance to perfect his chemical weapons, which horrifically killed countless people, Ionian and Noxian alike. Among these casualties were Riven's old unit and Master Yi's entire village. After the League forces Runeterra into an uneasy truce, Singed spends his time dabbling in things like "pest control," where his street-melting pesticides invariably prove worse than the initial infestations.

Hey, been a bit, but I'm back with another EP. This one's been a long time in the making, mainly because... well, I kept forgetting about it.
What’s the Work?
Chained Heat 2 is a direct-to-VHS sequel to the classic 1983 Women in Prison movie. Released in 1993, the plot is about Alexandra Morrison, who is framed for drug possession while on a trip to Czechoslovakia, and is sentenced to the dangerous Razig Penitentiary, an all female prison that indulges in criminal activity like drug smuggling and prostitution. And that's not even accounting for the... rather eccentric Warden Magda Kassar and what she has in store for the prisoners.
But on the other side of the wall is Alexandra's sister Suzanne, who, with the help of Stanley Goff, hopes to free her sister and expose the prison's criminal activities to the public.
Shame about Goff though.
Who is He?
Stanley Goff is revealed to be a financier of Razig Penitentiary's prostitution ring, making himself the true head of the prison for over 38 years.
What has he done?
Goff has Warden Kassar use the prison as a base for his massive criminal operation, enforcing drug trafficking and prostitution to make himself some money. Goff assigns some of his men to track innocent beautiful women down and frame them for drug peddling so they can be thrown into his prison. Goff even poses as a member of the jury to ensure the trials go in his favor, while having very close ties to the Judge of these trials.
Able to get away with his operation by taking advantage of the Judge’s fetishistic love of torture, Goff supplies the Judge with several girls for him to torture to death, having implied to have done this several times over the years to keep the girls coming. After a while, Goff's operation is in shambles and he's eventually found by the court to be guilty of kidnapping, extortion, and drug smuggling. But one of the prisoners has her own colorful list of Goff’s crimes as she puts him in a trunk to be taken to court:
“For the crimes of murder, torture, rape, and kidnapping, this court finds you... guilty! Guilty! Guilty!”
Redeeming Qualities?
None. While Goff poses as an ally for Suzanne, it's mainly so that he can get more women into his prison, really hoping to keep his operation flowing for as long as he can.
Heinousness?
So for a women in prison series that has very loose continuity (none of the movies reference each other, and even the "sequels" after this one were just unrelated prison movies made into Chained Heat installments in order to sell more copies; there's literally two third installments(!)), Goff just about makes it. His operation is large, visceral, and brutal, allowing abuse and rape to occur in his prison as a way to make even more money, and that's not even getting into allowing a sexual sadist like the Judge to torture many more women to keep his operation afloat.
Now there's definitely some nasty customers in these movies, but they're pretty standard for the genre, and I don't think they hold quite enough of a candle to Goff and the other candidate I have in mind from this movie.
Conclusion
Pretty easy keep
It's Spooky Month!