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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#39226: Mar 14th 2024 at 12:55:52 AM

Ok, let the spice flow! Doing this one now and will have the other proposal up within a few days:

What's the work?

Dune (2021) and its sequel Dune: Part Two are film adaptations of the classic of science fiction literature, brought to the screen courtesy of director Denis Villeneuve. Set in a galaxy where the rare export known as spice is the ultimate sign of power, the barren "Dune" world Arrakis is the only planet that produces the treasured spice. When it is handed over by the Emperor to House Atreides, things seem to be looking up for young Paul, heir to the Atreides royalty—but a conspiracy results in the destruction of his royal family and his isolation on Arrakis. Through his own natural talents and the help of the local, scattered society of "Fremen", however, Paul may just strike back against those who betrayed his house to decimation.

Who is Baron Harkonnen? What has he done?

  • A bloated, soft-spoken hedonist who has controlled Arrakis for decades, Baron Vladimir Harkonnen is the Big Bad of the films.
  • The Baron has overseen the spice harvesting operation on Arrakis with a brutal hand, suppressing the Fremen so he can drain Arrakis dry of its valuable resource. At the start of the first film, the Baron has Arrakis "taken" from him by the Emperor and given to House Atreided, far more favored by the galaxy...but this is nothing but a plot by the Emperor, the organized religion of the Bene Gesserit, and the Baron himself to lure House Atreides into a trap on Arrakis. The Emperor has recognized that Duke Leto Atreides has grown too popular amongst the commonfolk, and needs to be eliminated to secure Imperial rule—and the Baron is all too eager to help organize the annihilation of his longtime rival.
  • The Baron organizes a vicious, bloody assault on House Atreides's new base on Arrakis, having his brutish nephew Rabban lead the charge and slaughter all Atreides soldiers and staff. The Baron infiltrated the base by taking the wife of Atreides loyalist Dr. Yueh hostage, threatening her with heinous torture if Yueh wouldn't help the Baron's forces bypass Atreides security. When the Baron meets with Yueh after, he fulfills his promise to "free" Yueh's wife of her pain and reunite the couple—by revealing he had already killed her before slitting Yueh's throat.
  • The Baron is ordered by the Bene Gesserit to spare Leto's concubine Jessica and son Paul, as they have plans for the duo, and the Baron gives his word that he won't harm them. He then orders Jessica and Paul be thrown into the Arrakis desert to die, remarking "I said I would not harm them. And I shall not. But Arrakis is Arrakis. And the desert takes the weak. My desert. My Arrakis. My Dune."
  • Capturing a paralyzed Leto and stripping him naked just for humiliation, the Baron taunts him over the annihilation of his House and the death of his family, and though Leto uses a poison tablet slipped to him by Yueh to critically wound the Baron, the Baron survives. He hands over control of Arrakis to Rabban, demanding the genocide of the Fremen and that Arrakis be completely drained of its resources.
    The Baron: Now, I have only one requirement. Income. So squeeze, Rabban. Squeeze hard.
    Rabban: Yes, Uncle. And the Fremen?
    The Baron: ...Kill them all.
  • Come the sequel, the Baron is...frustrated with Rabban's lack of success in his orders. The Fremen—lead by a surviving Paul—have been launching successful strikes against spice harvesting, leaving House Harkonnen's finances dwindling. Introduced in the sequel naked and having tortured, killed, and possibly done worse to two attendants—both questionably children—out of annoyance at his recent losses, the Baron threatens Rabban with a similar fate if he continues to fail.
  • Deciding to bring in fresh blood, the Baron travels to his homeworld of Giedi Prime, where he hosts bloody Gladiator Games. He has his other nephew, Feyd Rautha, put to the test in these games by using drugged prisoners of war as target practice for Feyd's bloodthirst...but one of the opponent prisoners is left unsedated, the Baron figuring that Feyd will either prove himself, or die a failure. When Feyd kills his opponent, the Baron grants control of Arrakis to him from Rabban, letting Feyd launch mindless "heavy artillery" campaigns against the Fremen that kill scores of their number.
  • When even these tactics fail and the Baron's own secret ambitions to overthrow the Emperor come to naught, the Baron is brought before the Emperor, crippled from his life support systems, and left helpless as Paul and the Fremen lead a massive war against the Emperor. Though the Baron successfully turns the other Great Houses against the Emperor and ensures that a devastating war will fall upon the galaxy, his final moments are spent pathetically trying to crawl his way to the Emperor's vacant throne, before he is coldly killed by Paul. His body is left in the desert, last seen being consumed by bugs as the rest of his House is dismantled.
    Paul: You die like an animal.

Mitigating features?

Unlike the Emperor, who genuinely cares about his daughter, the Baron values his nephews only as much as they are useful to him. He threatens Rabban with death for "disgracing" the House with his failures, and he tricks Feyd into risking his life in a gladiator competition as a "test" of his competency, just smirking it off when Feyd flatly accuses him of "trying to kill me."

Now, the sequel does reveal that Jessica is the Baron's bastard child, and therefore Paul his grandson, but...there is no further information or discussion had on the ins-and-outs of this situation. The Baron never even acknowledges this fact, and indeed doesn't even seem to be aware of it. We see a quick glimpse in a flashback of what seems to be the newborn Jessica, with the Baron coldly staring at the baby, but there's no other interactions or detail offered on the situation or how the Baron felt; the Baron doesn't even realize the truth until Paul kills him while calling him "grandfather", and the Baron's only expression is one of shock that he's dying.

He's ultimately a cold-blooded tyrant and a right bastard, whose only concern to his dying moment is clawing his way to power.

Heinousness?

While the Emperor and Bene Gesserit are equal conspirators in the destruction of House Atreides, the Baron is The Heavy of the films and by far the worst of them all, leading the annihilation of House Atreides and ordering the genocide of the Fremen, before turning the Great Houses against the Emperor to provoke galactic war. He further threatens his own family, empowers them to do heinous shit of their own, kills Yueh and his wife, and does something horrible to two attendants that leave them screaming in anguish before they die.

Final Verdict?

An easy keep

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Evanpotter09 Since: Sep, 2023 Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#39228: Mar 14th 2024 at 1:10:42 AM

[tup] Baron

I guess Rabban will be the other one?

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#39229: Mar 14th 2024 at 1:20:20 AM

Indeed, Rabban will be next; Lighty will be handling the write-up for him, btw.

And to make things clear in case anyone is curious about the other villains, even setting aside heinousness compared to the Baron and Rabban: the Bene Gesserit and its current leader are too mysterious in their goals and motives to be said to be pure evil; Emperor Shaddam, as mentioned in the EP, cares about his daughter; and Feyd, despite being a violent, Ax-Crazy sadist who lacks a lot of his redeeming qualities from the books? Sincerely values combat and honor during it, to a disqualifying degree. He expresses rage when a minion tries to help him in a fight; when he kills one of his opponents, he remarks "You fought well." even as the guy dies, and when Feyd himself is killed in singles combat? He repeats the exact same line to the victor, using his last words to boast "You fought well."

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#39230: Mar 14th 2024 at 1:27:23 AM

Yes to the Baron. What exactly IS "spice" and why is it so important?

TheGrayFox ....Phenomenal from A Lovecraftian fishing village Since: Sep, 2011
....Phenomenal
#39231: Mar 14th 2024 at 1:38:26 AM

[up] Spice is a Fantastic Drug only found on Arrakis that can extend lifespans and enhance the user's mental capabilities, sometimes to supernatural degrees. That second one is important because the dimension-folding tech they use for long-distance space travel is incredibly complex and basically requires precognition to navigate with. (And for a spacefaring civilization, having reliable navigation in space is kinda important so everybody wants it).

[tup] for Harkonnen.

There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
jlvs200s from The Netherlands (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: I miss my wife, Tails
#39233: Mar 14th 2024 at 1:44:00 AM

[tup] Baron

"The time has come for every last Shoppe... No! The time has come for the DREAM KINGDOM to bow down to me! Gotcha ! Hee-hee!" | He/Him
AwarenessBringer Since: Sep, 2017 Relationship Status: Singularity
#39234: Mar 14th 2024 at 1:46:17 AM

Having seen both movies, [tup] for the Baron.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#39236: Mar 14th 2024 at 3:16:36 AM

[tup] to the Baron

Bow to the Prototype
towerator Mad geologist from A village of indomitable gauls Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Mad geologist
#39237: Mar 14th 2024 at 3:18:14 AM

Abstain for the Baron in that his relationship with Feyd could qualify as Even Evil Has Loved Ones.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#39239: Mar 14th 2024 at 3:39:40 AM

I'm guessing Nelo goes after Mundus?

Also, Dagded's writeup is about 310 words. A bit on the lengthy side.

YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#39240: Mar 14th 2024 at 4:01:55 AM

Good job Ravok

[tup] Baron Harkonnen

Edited by YorkobeShounen on Mar 14th 2024 at 4:02:03 AM

AwarenessBringer Since: Sep, 2017 Relationship Status: Singularity
#39241: Mar 14th 2024 at 4:02:08 AM

[up][up][up][up] How can you be sure of that? The Baron might have Feyd as his "favorite," but it is not the same as genuine love and concern.

Edited by AwarenessBringer on Mar 14th 2024 at 5:02:34 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#39242: Mar 14th 2024 at 4:06:17 AM

[tup]Baron Harkonen happily

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TheCosmicCollector Since: Feb, 2023 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#39243: Mar 14th 2024 at 4:38:40 AM

A unsurprising yet easy [tup] for Baron Harkonnen.

VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Hardcorebatmanfan Since: Mar, 2021 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
MermaidEyes15 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
#39247: Mar 14th 2024 at 6:36:08 AM

Very strong yes to Baron.

And to just point out my defense of The Carnival Master, I think him and Collector both have enough on their own actions to make them stand out for each other (plus, collector isn’t lacking in resources either since she has her time powers)


  • The Life:
    • Memphis is a brutal pimp feared by the dozen prostitutes working for him, who prides himself on his talent for charming girls with false hopes of big dreams, only to lure them into lives of never-ending, backbreaking sex work. Having his eye on Queen, Memphis has Jojo fuel her boyfriend Fleetwood’s crippling drug addiction, leaving Queen with no one to turn to. Initially kind to Queen by giving her a beautiful dress, he reveals that he expects her to pay him back by pimping for him for at least a year, threatening the life of Fleetwood and her if she refuses. When Queen attempts to warn Fleetwood, Memphis horrifically beats her and decides to cast her down to the bums who will “screw anything”, having his henchmen pimp her out at knifepoint, with the intent to fully break her. Catching Queen about to escape with the help of Sonja, one of Memphis’ hardened women, Memphis attempts to force them back into the wretched life of prostitution, sneering that they can never choose to leave, before proceeding to stab Fleetwood to death.
    • Joseph P. Morse, nickname Jojo, is a hustler willing to do anything to climb up the ladder of success. Having been known to entice young women to sell them to his friend, Lou, for casting couch offers, Jojo helps Memphis in getting Queen pimped to him, purely for money. To that end, Jojo has Fleetwood hooked on hard drugs and gets him to cheat on his new girl, Mary, getting Memphis access to Queen, where he convinces him to follow through on his plan. When Queen attempts to escape Memphis and asks for Jojo’s help, Jojo betrays her and brings Memphis for money, staying to watch her be beaten brutally by Memphis. Having warned Memphis of Sonja helping Queen escape, Jojo attacks and disarms Fleetwood to have Memphis stab him to death, and when Memphis is shot dead by Queen, Jojo attempts to persuade them to work for him now as Memphis branch opens new opportunities. After Queen escapes and Sonja turns herself in to cover for her, Jojo brags about getting away with everything, getting a new position at Lou’s company to do what he wants behind close doors. Jojo ends the story by spotting a newly arrived 17 year old, going off to entice her to be his next victim.

Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Mar 14th 2024 at 9:50:43 AM

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Etrebamort Lord from Purgatory. Since: Mar, 2024 Relationship Status: At the center of everything that happens to me
Lord
#39250: Mar 14th 2024 at 7:40:32 AM

Sorry, let me try again. I propose Dennis Creed.

Who is he and what has he done?

Dennis Creed appears in Troubled Blood, the fifth installment in the Cormoran Strike Novels by Robert Galbraith. He's a psychopathic Serial Killer and Serial Rapist of women. Drugging, abducting, torturing and murdering countless women in his basement apartment, Creed, even wrote taunting letters to the families of his victims, telling them about the things that he did to their loved ones. Incarcerated in Broadmoor, Creed grants private detective Cormoran Strike a private interview merely as an opportunity to drip-feed information to him and glean information about the case that Cormoran is investigating, in order to feel powerful.

Heinousness Hannibal Lecter, this guy is not. Described as a man whose primary pleasures in life are “inflicting pain and establishing dominance”, Creed remorselessly boasts of his crimes against prostitutes, justifying his actions as intellectual exercises and for the good of mankind. Having been suspected of the murder of Margot Bamborough for decades, Creed falsely claims to have killed her, merely to satisfy his desire for publicity, and gleefully confesses to the rape and murder of a teenage schoolgirl, only regretting it because of his impulsivity in doing so.

Mitigating factors Creed's childhood was not a pretty experience. Honestly both Harry and Voldemort had the life of Riley compared to him. His father was his grandfather, and once tried to drown him in the toilet when he was a child. His doctor openly says that Dennis's childhood was "Hell" but goes on to say that lots of the other patients in Broadmoor had hellish childhoods and many have got better from being in there and gone on to be released whereas due to his complete lack of remorse, Creed looks set to be there for life and that there are other people who had childhoods just as bad and never went on to kill anyone.

Although there are other C.M. candidates in the Strike novels, he's one of the worst.

Thumbs up to Villeneuve Harkonnen. I felt disturbed just reading some of that entry.

Edited by Etrebamort on Mar 14th 2024 at 2:40:53 PM

Lord Etrabamort

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