Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
Oh no Kang DOES count and I EP’d him a bit ago
, I just accidentally called him Keehwan instead of Gihwan. I corrected it lol
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Feb 6th 2024 at 7:26:56 AM
Oh, I missed that
Yes to him.
So we got the Big Bad Duumvirate, the highest body count, and a child killer?
Yup! There’s one other candidate I’m unsure of but first let me bring down all the other villuna and why they don’t count, in order of death;
- Bohyeon Lee: A guy who thinks the government is out to get him, He killed 3 prostitutes and was the one who initially tried to murder Ru Ha before Jaejun killed him. He’s the least heinous of them with his crimes never elaborated
- A nurse, Yeongsuk Shim, who killed three patients and a possible 43 as she considered it mercy kills due to how much pain they are in. Again, these murders are left pretty vague and illdefined as she dies quickly
- Giwung Kim, a serial killing cannibal who murdered his mom and sister and has 19 kills. Unlike the others, his actions aren’t explored as much and is weirdly Affable to Ru Ha, not killing her while discovering her and helps her get a knife out of Chungshik’s neck and doesn’t chase her while she runs
- Chungil Ji: An elderly and silent man who is apparently a child torturer, who had a rack behind his junkyard where he lured in, whipped and mutilated kids and later tries to turn Ru Ha alive as long as possible. Unlike all the other villains, Chungli has undefined kill Count and is too mentally unwell, as it’s stated he still loved the kids he tortured and didn’t want them to die.
- Jaejun Park: A triple killer who even killed his own best friend simply because he thought it was fun to watch the victim’s mother mourn as he helped, and he constantly got Ru Ha endangered. Despite it, he’s the least evil character as he’s genuinely affable and in the end, saves Ru Ha from death and is death is played slightly somberly as he gives her the key to freedom.
I might take a better look at the last convict and whether he can count or not
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Feb 6th 2024 at 8:08:55 AM
Next from The Saint, from the Roger Moore TV show:
What has "Georges Olivant"/Henri Flandin done?
- "Once there were 30 men, waiting in a clearing in the woods before dawn. They had flashlights hooked up to a car battery to guide a plane. The first parachute drop from the Free French Government in Britain. Machine guns, pistols, ammunition. The men crossed the clearing to pick up the supplies. Suddenly, the woods were full of stormtroopers. In a hail of bullets, 27 of those men fell dead. Why? Because he betrayed them."
- Villain of the season 1 episode "The Covetous Headsman." "Georges Olivant" initially seems to be a charming French gentleman and a friend of Valerine Brione's (the Girl of the Week) father, having served in La Résistance with him in the days of WWII and Vichy France. Except he's a bad liar: Simon immediately deduces the guy isn't who he claims to be and takes Valerie into his safety.
- Y'see, "Olivant," real name Henri Flandin, was no noble rebel. He was a traitor. All for money, Flandin betrayed his own countrymen to the Fascist government. Only three people out of thirty survived the ensuing massacre. Flandin was arrested after the war and served…a whopping eight years before being released.
- In the present day, having changed his name, Flandin is still feeling greedy, so he decides to track down the children of the man he betrayed years ago, Charles and Valerie Brione. The two of them are carrying a pair of medals engraved with a secret message that will lead them to a treasure the late elder Brione bequeathed to his children. Flandin means to steal what is rightfully the Briones so he can continue lavishing in the rich life he betrayed his way into.
- Flandin murders Charles for his medal by stabbing him in the heart, and threatens to murder Valerie for hers as well. Fortunately, Simon—with the help of the three survivors of the massacre Flandin organized—corner Flandin. Rather than submit, Flandin attempts to gun them all down and finish what he started years ago. Instead, he's outgunned and left ignominiously bleeding out on the fine carpets he bought with his blood money.
- Nothing. The dude is a cringing coward who can't bear to look the three survivors in the eye when he's finally exposed, but he's never, ever shown to be remorseful. The dude is so greedy he tries to cheat two children left orphaned by his war crime of their rightful life inheritance, and he decides to go out shooting rather than admit he was ever in the wrong.
- Easily over it. The standard of the Roger Moore series was much lower than the original Charteris stories. Nearly every villain who pushed the line in the original stories had their onscreen rapsheets sanitized—Abdul Osman, Kane Luker, and Grant Lasser included—or simply weren't adapted at all—like Rayt Marius, whose closest in-universe equivalent was a career criminal named Adolph Vogler who topped off at a whopping two murders).
- There's only two other villains after this in the Moore series across 118 episodes I think are worth effortposts. One of them is, like Flandin, a war criminal who changed his name and went into hiding, and he has a much higher body count than Flandin, but he was also a high-ranking Nazi. Flandin is just a treacherous little rat who betrayed his own side for quick cash. Similar but different niches there.
Just popping real quick to mention that the image I suggested for Monster Dragon Ball Fan Works is up for vote
.
- Courage the Cowardly Dog:
- The Black Puddle Queen is a man-eating siren who uses bodies of water to travel from her underwater kingdom and hunt for humans. With her Compelling Voice and sultry appearance, the Queen hypnotizes men into following her to her castle, where she performs a ritualistic ceremony before eating them alive. The Queen has filled her kingdom with the skeletal remains of her hundreds—if not thousands—of victims, and she tries to subject Eustace and Courage to the same fates. She later joins a villainous alliance to take Muriel hostage and destroy Courage in a slow, painful way out of nothing but annoyance that Courage thwarted the Queen's last scheme.
- What If Mace Windu KILLED Count Dooku on Geonosis
: General Grievous takes control of the Separatists after Count Dooku’s death and betrays Sidious. He unleashes a droid army on the galaxy to completely destroy the Republic, with entire worlds and civilisations burned to the ground and the Jedi and clone army of the Republic massacred. Grievous uses Malevolence to destroy any opposition, thrilling to the sense of victory it gives him. When the Republic starts winning the Battle of Cato Neimodia, Grievous tries to escape before encountering Anakin Skywalker and attempting to kill him.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Feb 7th 2024 at 1:19:02 AM
Here's a candidate I have:
What Is the Work?
The Larimar region is a fan-made Pokémon region my the YouTuber Lumiose Trainer Zac. It is based on the Dominican Republic and features other YouTubers as notable characters, such as the Gym Leaders and Elite Four, with Zac himself being the champion (and an Expy of Leon). Link can be found here
.
Who Is The Candidate? What Have They Done?
President Sterling is the leader of the evil team Team Prestige, who are Politically Incorrect Villains who are racist towards everyone not from the Larimar Region, and even then they are willing to attack natives if defend they outsiders. President Sterling was once a war veteran, but when he came home, he noticed that his region was more welcoming towards immigrants, which ticked him off. President Sterling would then unleash Legendary Pokemon to cause "natural" disasters, destroying a lot of Larimar and endangering everyone in the region. However, Sterling himself ended up saving the day, boosting his reputation. Sterling would then spend decades going into politics until he became the president of Larimar. While Sterling seemed like the Big Good during the story, it was actually him who is the leader of Team Prestige. This means that he was responsible for capturing the legendary Pokemon and imprisoning innocent people. During the climax, Sterling once again uses the Legendary Pokemon to destroy Larimar and endanger its people once again. This time, Sterling awakens the Pokemon Tawartagun, a Pokemon Made of Evil, with Sterling's hatred being what's empowering it. His plans are eventually stopped and he and the rest of Team Prestige are arrested, but he still vows that it's not over, and as long as there is hatred, there will always be someone to oppose immigrants.
Migating Factors? Are They Bad Enough?
Okay, admittedly, there is one thing that may prevent Sterling from qualifying, and I have hesitated in proposing him for this reason. It appears as though he may care about the rest of Team Prestige, but it is fairly vague, and as I said before Sterling isn't willing to discriminate if others defend others. Plenty of CMs may or may not care about others, but as long as it's vague, it's okay. That is why I could still see Sterling qualifying in that regard. Other than that, there isn't much that prevents him from qualifying.
Admittedly, Sterling is quite tame compared to a lot of other CMs, but this is Pokemon we're taking about, so the heinous standard tends to be lower. This also applies to a lot of fan-made Pokemon regions that aren't Dark Fics. He almost destroyed an entire region twice, has kidnapped and imprisoned innocents, and has likely injured dozens due to these disasters. In the context of a Non-Dark Fic take on a Pokemon region, that may be bad enough.
Final Verdict:
I think so, but maybe not. You decide. Thank you!Edited by cwallace135 on Feb 7th 2024 at 9:03:23 AM

For Kang, we get a mention (and a short scene of) him about to rape and kill 8 of the people he hired to help him hunt as well as a more detailed account of his actions, unlike some other killers such as Giwung and Yeongshuk
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Feb 6th 2024 at 7:22:21 AM