Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
for Junho Park and Hyeseon Kim.
Is this write up better?
Legends
Arcade Lacks his usual sense of fair play. Having grown sick and tired of losing against the heroes of the Marvel Universe, Arcade uses a ray gun to nullify their powers erase almost everyone’s memories of them and conquer the world but not before instigating a Civil War between the and humans as a distraction. Finding an old Steve Rodger’s alive Arcade orders agent Toynbee to destroy him and bring the other villains out of Hiding. When Arcade asks The Hood if he located the hidden bases, The hood points out one of his flaws, causing Arcade to electrocute him in response. When his lies get exposed Arcade undergoes a villainous breakdown and threatens to blow the female Daredevil’s brains out while gloating about he’ll have a chance to kill the Avengers a second time.
Edited by Godwriter on Feb 6th 2024 at 3:07:33 AM
The Ultimate Incarnation of Evil
Looks ok.
Welcome back, Larry! It's very nice to see you again. Personally, I missed you and even recently wondered when you would be back. It's funny, I just started worrying about you and you showed up immediately. Fine. In any case, I think there is enough plot in the song, so there is
Conomor the Damned (a clear nickname).
And here’s another candidate from the manga. Here’s another one.
Content warning as well.
Who is Gihwan Kang? What Does He Do?
A dangerous, hot headed convict, almost always seen in a straight jacket, Gihwan (34) serves as one of the most brutal convicts in the story. He is a prolific Serial Killer and Serial Rapist with a victim count of a whopping 20, with no known motive than simply wanting to, with the professor citing an incident (which we see a small moment of) of Keehwan paying 8 hunters to help him hunt some food before raping and murdering them all.
First appearing in the prologue interview, where he simply glares at the interview before simply saying “Go fuck yourself.” Gihwan was the only one Hyeseon Kim doesn’t release during their prison break, to ensure he doesn’t murder all of them. Jaejun Park, trying to find a way for him and Ru Ha to escape, does the smart move and tries to break out Gihwan, with Gihwan immediately bashing Jaejun’s head in before moving on.
In a hallway, Gihwan confronts Junho, Hyeseon, and Gyeongshik, and attempts to have Gyeongshik murder both of them and get his straight jacket off. Gyeongshik attempts to torture Gihwan to death, finding pleasure in torturing someone to death, before Ru Ha and an injured Jaejun comes in, resulting in Gihwan fleeing. When Ru Ha flees during a brutal fight against Gyeongshik and Junho, Gihwan comes in, managing to somehow burn off his straight jacket and bash Gyeongshik’s skull in, killing him.
Junho and Hyeseon flees, leaving Gihwan brutally beating up Jaejun. Ru Ha comes in and threatens Gihwan with a weapon, to which he smugly calls her bluff. Ru Ha, despite every fiber telling her, can’t have the strength to kill him. Gihwan, thinking Jaejun and Ru Ha is an item, Gihwan decides to twist the knife and forces Jaejun to watch as he attempts to rape Ru Ha, seeing if he’ll get to the buzz saw in time to stop him.
He then attempts to force himself on Ru Ha, but the woman manages to use a damaged syringe to blind him, and he ends with Jaejun bashes his head, killing him but Jaejun (not so unfortunately as they are still a sociopath) bleeds out, giving Ru Ha what she needs as she flees.
Mitigating Factors?
Nope.
Heinous Standard?
Gihwan is one of the worst characters in the story, with the highest confirmed kill count of the story, alongside serial rape. He wishes to brutally kill all the convicts and Ru Ha, and he brutally beats up Jaejun as he forces him to watch as he rapes Ru Ha. Overall, dude is a nasty piece of work.
Verdict?
Yes to him.
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Feb 6th 2024 at 5:53:55 AM
to Black Puddle Queen, Grievous, Orosco, Napier, Mr. Fox, Gorgon, Paladin, Ripper, Paasch, Karanis, Frieza, Tallera, Doc, and the Forest of Humans duo.
Is there a rule that says that each candidate must have their own writeup? Or, alternatively, that two or more candidates covered by a single EP must also be covered by a single writeup?
Depends if the two candidates are similar enough in their crimes (like partners in crime) or otherwise to make it easier for them to share an write up. Such as Miles Axelrod and Zundapp as well as Zed and Maynard
for the Forest of Humans characters and Conomor the Accursed.
for Steven Rose.
Arcade writeup looks good and yeah, as Mermaid said, candidates can share a writeup if they work together and share the same crimes.
Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.Hi everyone! I was wondering something. Considering the stand-alone nature of some Ben 10 episodes, the Vilgax of "Ben 10 S2 E4 "Gwen 10"" and the Kevin 11 of "Ben 10 S 4 E 7 Ken 10" should be discussed here? It has been a while since I saw those episodes, but what do you guys think, especially the experts in that show and franchise?
Edited by ElJuaco on Feb 6th 2024 at 2:59:03 AM
Oh, right. It's been 2 weeks since Random in Death. No keepers. While the FE and if he passes baseline are debatable, the fact he isn't bad enough for the series isn't. Even him being a teenager doesn't matter, considering Rayleen Straffo was 10 and Willow Mackie (15) killed dozens.
And finally, here’s the last candidate.
And I can’t stress enough here. MASSIVE content warning, it’s really disgusting this guy.
Who is Chungshik Lee? What Does He Do?
While a minor character in the long run, Chungshik Lee (49) stands out as the most DISGUSTING one of them all. The first of the criminal appearing, he appears in the interview to dismiss all his crimes, those being the murder of 7 children, and claims he’s still a good person, and that they all ignore the good he done.
Chungshik is the most eager released criminal, going quick to murder the staff with the others. When Ru Ha escapes with Jaejun into the complex, Chungshik shows to be disgruntled with Junho ordering him around, and he goes with Gyeongshik, Giwung, and Chungil to find Ru Ha. Chungshik finds Yeongsuk‘s corpse and realizes that Junho and Hyeseon is gonna betray them and tries to form a pack with the three to kill them and Ru Ha and Jaejun. However, when the power cuts out, Gyeongshik quickly breaks and chases Chungshik to torture and kill him, with Chungil and Giwung helping him.
Chungshik hides in a room and we get his backstory which shows just how horrifying he is. As it’s revealed, Chungshik is a religious man who, believing that since Jesus sacrificed himself on the crossed for the sins of humanity, he is freed to commit them without damnation, he lures away, and tortured children (implied to do much worst) before killing them. What’s worst? He personally films their last moments, masturbating to their despair, tears, begging and murdering for his own pleasure.
Once cornered and he starts pathetically begging for his life, to which Gyeongshik mentions is something his own victims probably did, Chungshik realizes he’s screwed and kill himself so that the trio don’t.
Mitigating Factors?
God no. Dude is a disgusting man who still thinks he’s good despite his actions and kills himself when realizing he’s going to die, not out of any remorse for his actions, and is a complete coward by the end.
Heinous Standard?
While he doesn’t have a high kill Count, Chungshik is the most disgusting for a minor villain. He’s a horrific pedophile who makes snuff films of his child victims to which he gets off on their despair and begging. And unlike most of the villains. We aren’t spared from the details with three scenes of three kids begging for their lives and are about to die. Overall. He’s awful.
Verdict?
Yes to him
