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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#34701: Jan 12th 2024 at 6:22:43 AM

[tup] to Cadaver

Abstain on Death

Hopefully it's never necessary, but I think the crowner decision is good

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#34702: Jan 12th 2024 at 6:31:20 AM

In fine with that decision BTW. Hopefully it doesnt happen again but it's pretty reasonable.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#34703: Jan 12th 2024 at 6:54:15 AM

We just need to be more careful next time.

I just found out Jonathan Green used to be a school headmaster) before becoming a full-time Gamebook writer. Talk about Cool Teacher...


Either ways, another Knights of Doom proposal.

After slaying Cadaver and ending the undead threat, you form alliances with other knights as you take down armies of chaos in large-scale battles. But then you come across the ruins of a ransacked village filled with corpses, and finds out it was the work of the Beastmen.

You hear of the Beastmen's involvement with the forces of chaos after a rendezvous with your close friend, Sir Connor of Achenbury; impaled by arrows fired from Beastmen archers, Sir Connor's Last Words is a warning: The Chaos Beast Lord, Murgrim the Cruel, had joined Belgaroth's forces.

Who is Murgrim the Cruel?

Murgrim is a Beastman chieftain who's literally bloodthirsty and a Fat Bastard who, when Lord Belgaroth rises from the dead, swore allegiance - not out of loyalty, but to relish in bloodshed and massacres.

Leading Beastmen hordes in a rampage, Murgrim wiped out entire armies, and at one point you infiltrate a ritual lifted straight out of The Wicker Man (1973) where dozens and dozens of civilians are locked in a giant human-shaped wicker cage by the Beastmen, under Murgrim's orders to be incinerated alive - you rescuing them will uncover a vital clue to Murgrim's location.

Your quest climaxes with a huge skirmish against the Beast-men, a Race Against the Clock where if your army fail to arrive in time, Ruddlestone will be destroyed in a massive battle; you broke through the Beastman's ranks and eventually infiltrates the Beastman's camp, where Murgrim sat on a wooden throne in a torture chamber in which prisoners are sentenced to Unwilling Suspension over a fiery pit, and Murgrim amusing himself by pulling and pushing a lever, dropping and raising captives into the flames and enjoying the torture he's inflicting.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/murg.png

Yeah, I'm not kidding about the "dropping prisoners into fiery pit" thing...

You attack Murgrim and kill him on the spot, release the prisoners, and then finds a Golden Phoenix imprisoned within Murgrim's throne room which will help you in the penultimate battle against Belgaroth.

Mitigating Factors?

The Beast Men's chaotic leader, Murgrim the Cruel. Well does he deserve that name, for at his command countless settlements have been put to the torch and the bloods of hundreds of innocents spilt... [excerpt quoted from the book]

Again, none. Within the book itself, the Beastmen are portrayed as mindless, Always Chaotic Evil minions... but Murgrim even out-does them with his sheer lust for torturing victims and demanding mass executions to Leave No Survivors.

Heinousness Standard?

Compared to Belgaroth or Cadaver, Murgrim's misdeeds are smaller in scale, but for a Mook Lieutenant? Being one of Belgaroth's leading enforcers who clearly enjoys his job a little too much, with a sizeable body count and throw in a bit of sadism with the torture chamber scene (that the book made it clear Murgrim had done plenty of times) and voila.

Should we count Murgrim the Cruel then?

Cruel enough to keep [tup]

Edited by RobertTYL on Jan 12th 2024 at 10:58:58 PM

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#34705: Jan 12th 2024 at 7:17:14 AM

[tup]Mugrim

Anymore thoughts

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#34706: Jan 12th 2024 at 7:22:53 AM

Go for it.

Murgrim...exceptionally sadistic doesn't mean he's not Always Chaotic Evil.

RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#34707: Jan 12th 2024 at 7:40:20 AM

[up][up] Go for it.

[up] I can go either way for Murgrim tbh. Just wondering if his display of sadism (with FF-artist Tony Hugh even went the extra mile to illustrate) might give him the "oomph" for this trope

[down][tup]

[down][down] Ah yes, thank you. Murgrim have enough sentience to swear allegiance and command leadership, so there you go

Edited by RobertTYL on Jan 12th 2024 at 8:07:35 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#34708: Jan 12th 2024 at 7:46:36 AM

Anyways my first mcu cm. And it's one 0f my fav villains.

Whats the work?

What If…? (2021) is a work of the MCU dedicated to what if moments. I. E. What would have happened if a different decision was taken in one of the films. At least in theory the actual epsidoes are pretty straight alternate universes with often glaring changes but uh off topic. Now me and wet have two examples here. And four for mb. But we'll get to that.

For now. Here's mine. From What If…? S2E2 "What If... Peter Quill Attacked Earth's Mightiest Heroes?"

Who is Ego the living planet?

  • A celestial whose also a raging egomaniac. Ego dreamed of an event called the expansion :where he would release cosmic seeds on every planet in the universe and assimilate it to himself.
  • Ego came to earth and sired a son named Peter Quill with a woman named Meredith. When Ego viewed her as too human, he killed her via brain tumor. And ordered Yondu to get his son back.

  • Now of course in the sacred time line, Yondu didn't but here he did. Ego destroyed Peter's Walkman as "he didn't need it". And set abiut the expansion.
  • Ego sent Peter to world after world where his powers unwittingly activated their cosmic seed and wiped them out. Eventually even Asgard and other nine realms barring earth were consumed.

  • Peter escapes to earth to try and get away from him. We're he finds the 80's avengers who they convince to stand down.

  • Meanwhile an avatar of ego himself arrives for his wayward son intending to bring him back. He tried to activate earth's cosmic seed and wipe out the world. But Peter arrived and stops him. Ego confronts him and reveals mockingly he murdered his mother for being human and when Peter refuses to come wiyh him.... Tries to get rid of him as well. Lambsasting him as a failure.

  • Anyway Peter defuses the seed and destroys Ego's avatar. With the 80's avengers intending to go into space and finish him off for Good.

Heinous standard?

Easily well what if has weird continuty with the mcu and I mean tons and tons of continuity snarls. To the point I take it as it's own thing.

Ego still passes easily. They cut stuff Iike the child serial killing stuff and the Walkman kick the dog being more grotqesue. But he's still intending a universe wide assimilation plot which is still easily behind only Infinity Ultron as the worst thing in the series and Ultron has the infinity stones so he's not as powerful. Murders his lover and intends to wipe out all life earth on earth after having already wiped out countless worlds and treats his son horribly.

Mitigating factors?

Nah. The kinda debatable things from the fikm are gone. No if he went one last time than he was scared he'd abandon his mission or it broke my heart to put that tumor in her. Here he even mocks her for being human and getting in his way. He views Peter as an extension of himself and has no issue turning on him when he is disgusted That he wants to be human.

Conclusion?

Very easy keep.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#34709: Jan 12th 2024 at 7:49:21 AM

[tup] Ego

[up][up][up] I mean, as long as there is nothing hinting at Beastmen flat out having no agency (like being created to be that way), I don’t see problem with Murgrim since he is leader of ones we see and sadist even by their standards.

Edited by EmperorGeode on Jan 12th 2024 at 7:49:39 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#34710: Jan 12th 2024 at 7:50:29 AM

Them cutting the Offing the Offspring gives me some qualms, but seems easily bad enough (if not as good a character). Sure to him.

Though for someone as powerful as Infinite Ultron, his defeat was...kinda lame [lol]

Edited by ACW on Jan 12th 2024 at 10:51:12 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#34712: Jan 12th 2024 at 7:52:56 AM

I meant ego isn't as powerful as infinity Ultron since he doesn't have the stones

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#34713: Jan 12th 2024 at 7:54:12 AM

Oh, I got that. I just think Ultron being defeated by freaking Zola is kinda lame [lol] ("His" was referring to Ultron's defeat).

Curious: Did Ego know Peter would activate the Seeds?

Edited by ACW on Jan 12th 2024 at 10:57:13 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#34715: Jan 12th 2024 at 8:09:13 AM

[up][up]Yeah it's not intentional on Peter's part but Ego sending them to these places activates them since his comic energy causes them to grow.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TheCosmicCollector Since: Feb, 2023 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
TurlesTheVegan Xykon from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Xykon
#34717: Jan 12th 2024 at 8:14:30 AM

[tup] for Dr. Death, Cadaver, Murgrim and Ego.

Power, it isn't something that you put on or take off like a jacket. It's just something you are.
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#34718: Jan 12th 2024 at 8:18:23 AM

[tup] Ego. While the original one shred his original supposed "redeeming qualities" for his own selfish desires, this version doesn't even had them to begin with.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#34720: Jan 12th 2024 at 8:23:36 AM

[tup] to Murgrim and Ego

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#34722: Jan 12th 2024 at 8:48:46 AM

Yes to Ego and Murgrim.

  • (bottom of new "others" folder) Bad Magic: Mr. Friendly is the "dark imagination made flesh" of Termoncara, where a Romanian man was falsely accused of murder and killed by the townsfolk. Born from the collective guilt of the murderers, Mr. Friendly and other monsters like him embodied the townsfolk's refusal to accept blame in favor of fearing those different from them, resulting in a massive increase in racist and homophobic murders as the monsters made Termoncara the "murder capital of Ireland" in just under two decades. Not content with this, Mr. Friendly schemed to escape Termoncara by manipulating the townsfolk into providing annual sacrifices for the monsters and murdering interlopers, personally killing his pawns should they fail. Seeking a host to possess, Mr. Friendly targeted the young Jamie Scanlon and began tormenting him, notably murdering his crush and gaslighting him into believing it was his fault. Mr. Friendly plans to seal his possession through massacre, setting his monsters to butcher the whole town while he tries to personally slaughter dozens of Jamie's classmates. Though born of fear and hate, Mr. Friendly goes far beyond his natural purpose to slake his sadism.

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#34723: Jan 12th 2024 at 8:52:28 AM

[tup] to Ego

Bow to the Prototype
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)

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