Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
Got a few issues with the Hateful, having read "When the Day Breaks" myself. Sol is deliberately turning billions of humans into zombie-like blob monsters against their will, basically resulting in the Earth becoming a desolate wasteland and people committing suicide to escape from this fate—which doesn't work since the creatures can bring humans back to life and forcibly convert them even if they were dead. I know it's all a desperate attempt to save them from the star, typical WIE behavior, but still... Not the best the option for humanity.
Yeah but the process is explicitly said to not be painful, and the blobs do seem happy once transformed. Admittedly, it's still effectively mass brainwashing but it also seems to be the only way Sol had to protect creatures of Earth from the Hateful, who explicitly would have given them a horrible and painful death, which honestly sounds worse to me than what Sol is doing right now (and Hateful also already exterminated two entire planets, giving him a larger scale than Sol). Then again, I did this EP only basing myself off the original When Day Breaks article and Heart and Sol since those were written by the same author.
Edited by CapitanoNox on Jan 9th 2024 at 7:41:33 PM
Hi, so I guess I am back here after a very long damn time. However, despite what happened (which I do not want to talk about at all) I will be careful what I say and just barely talk on the thread or just try and take a breather if something goes wrong no matter the outcome. Anyway, I guess I found myself a candidate from Blue Archive who may qualify, and here is why she may have a chance of qualifying.
Who is She? What Has She Done?
Kaya Shiranui is a student president who is pretty much involved in the RABBIT platoon, Valkyrie Police Academy, and Kaiser Industries. She manipulates events to cover her tracks, involving the RABBIT platoon, Valkyrie Police Academy, and Kaiser Industries. Her plan unravels when evidence of her illegal activities is discovered, leading to a suspension of Kaiser's redevelopment project.
She leverages the discontent within the student council to gain power and attempts to eliminate her opposition. However, her alliance with Kaiser's chairman falls apart when she is betrayed and kidnapped, only to be rescued later by the FOX platoon.
Kaya's manipulative tactics continue when she forcefully takes over as president of the student council, implementing authoritarian policies and outsourcing policing to a private military company. Her administration is marked by chaos and mismanagement, leading to widespread dissatisfaction and a loss of credibility. She then intends a terror attack using a missile silo to consolidate power, a plan that ultimately fails due to the intervention of the RABBIT and FOX platoons.
Kaya's downfall is cemented when her misuse of power and failed coup attempt led to her impeachment and the end of her reign over Kivotos.
Mitigating Factors
I would be lying when I said she might be the only true evil student in the entire series. Unlike some other student villains who have tragic stories and redeeming qualities, Kaya lacks such elements in her character arc. Her actions are driven solely by her desire for power, making her unique in my eyes for a villain. She is a smug manipulator all the way to the end. Even in his last moments she pretty much acts like a coward when corned showing no remorse for what she has done. Now while her defeat is funny considering she and her actions are taken very seriously in the universe and honestly considering what she has done I do not find her final moment mitigating too much to have an issue in my eyes. I will admit I was hesitant about this issue including her comedy parts (maybe due to my lack of humor for comedy) but it's worth a try regardless of what you see for her seriousness. Even then everything till the end for her character just outweighs it in my eyes.
Heinous Standard
Well, there are two who are CM but despite that, Kaya definitely does enough for her actions so here’s why she passes.
Kaya manipulates various characters, including the FOX Platoon, behind the scenes to further her own agenda. This manipulation involves orchestrating events that lead to betrayal, strife, and suffering among her peers. The only thing she is motivated by is an insatiable thirst for power and control. And be doing this she stages a coup, attempts to eliminate rival factions, and plots to rule Kivotos by becoming the student body president herself. Her lust for power drives her to commit heinous acts. She engages in deceptive practices, including forging documents to frame Rin, leading to Rin's dismissal from her position. These actions highlight her willingness to employ deceit to achieve her goals, regardless of the consequences for others. Then her actions pretty much resulted in the outsourcing of policing duties to private companies like Kaiser PMC. This choice prioritizes corporate interests over public welfare and accountability, demonstrating her disregard for the well-being of the citizens.
Kaya even enforces draconian laws, such as requiring citizens to show multiple documents for simple tasks like using the subway. These laws inconvenience and oppress the populace, highlighting her authoritarian and oppressive nature. Yet while all of that makes her barely pass or what not I believe the one thing that pushes her is perhaps one of the most heinous acts attributed to Kaya is her plan which is to unleash a terrorist attack on the Kaiser Corporation's missile silo beneath Kousagi Park which would lead to over thousands of people being killed. Her willingness to resort to such extreme violence and destruction to achieve her goals showcases her ruthless nature.
So yeah Kaya in my eyes does enough deeds for her to qualify to pass the standard.
Verdict
What do you think?
As for Hateful I am going to wait until I give my proper judgement. Count me as an abstain.
Edited by Echidna on Jan 9th 2024 at 2:43:48 PM
To sum it up: The Hateful wants to destroy all live on Earth. He did previously destory all live on two other planets but one of them didn't contain any intelligent life forms so that's not going to add anything to his heinousness. My question is how intelligent the inhabitants of the second planet were. Are we talking about cave men or just smart animals?
@Echidna: How common are villains with an attempted body count of thousands in the work? We have a school president who turned her school into a training facility for assassins and a vending machine with a god complex. The work already has two approved CMs so I don’t doubt the seriousness of the work even if it sounds like something out of South Park. But it’s kinda hard to figure out the overall heinous standard.
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Getting obliterated by a star and forcibly transformed into a zombified blob for the rest of my life are equally nasty IMO.
As for Kaya... Okay... Looking at the source material, there are... some severe issues that you forgot to specify. I Can't Believe I'm Saying This but apparently one of the main reasons why she attempts a coup on Rin is A-Cup Angst; she was envious of her for having larger breasts, oh boy... I don't think I can see her crimes as being Played for Drama.
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Let me copy and paste this from the tale: "Then, there was the Hateful. He was another of her kind. Older. His domain was blessed in having not just one, but two satellites primed to generate the bounty of life. Unlike Sol, however, the Hateful was arrogant and impulsive. None of the lifeforms of his oceanic Rythlos developed eyes or vision to gaze upon him, so he lashed out — boiling the fledgling ecosystem for this perceived slight. The extremophiles of the frigid Tmtes, though capable of complex feats of intelligence and adoption of learned behavior, never progressed to a sufficiently high degree of intellect or reasoning to genuinely appreciate their sun's gift. As such, they too were consumed by his malice."
I mean, at least with the blob you don't suffer. Yeah, you can argue it's brainwashing and loss of individuality and all. Then again, I'd argue there's some ambiguity on whether the blobs are actually just a hivemind or just feel so much pleasure they don't give a shit anymore, but the point is they can't suffer because in one way or the other they feel extremely happy. The Hateful on the other side would just kill them all horribly and painfully.
Edited by CapitanoNox on Jan 9th 2024 at 8:39:52 PM
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Not very common in the series. I believe the thousand mark would push them to the heinous standard. That's a pass imo. Besides she intends to use the missile that would cause very very bad damage and it would give her an extremely high body count.
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I mean that I can understand and I will admit it's a problem and hesitation when doing an EP of her for her comedy. Regardless I would see it either way including that part. But I do think she is serious enough. And I do mean just maybe enough for a discussion for a verdict. Like I said was mixed and hesitant for her but decided to do it just so I could get a clear answer. If not then I respect your opinion and what you see for her.
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No idea to be honest for the comedy part. I never did it on purpose for clarification. Well regardless my fault for not bringing it up earlier than I should for the EP to be honest. Oh well, it was worth a discussion.
Edited by Echidna on Jan 9th 2024 at 3:09:23 PM
to The Hateful Star, what Sol does sounds much worse even if she had good intentions.
to Kaya if her motives are Played for Laughs.
I still personally don't understand how what Sol does is worse. Yes, humans act as if it's a Fate Worse than Death to avoid at all costs, but from what's been shown it all boils down to a bunch of blobs that are horny- I mean, happily obsessed with the Sun, and even Heart and Sol portrays it as an act of love from Sol. I don't know, maybe it's just me.
Edited by CapitanoNox on Jan 9th 2024 at 9:00:17 PM
Abstaining on the above for now
- The Wizard of Oz script
: The Wicked Witch of the West herself was a darker character in the original screenplay. Having terrorized Oz for years with her sister, the Witch's only concern when her sister is killed by a house dropping on her is to attempt to loot her body for the powerful ruby slippers so she can rule Oz. When the slippers are placed on young Dorothy's feet, the Witch swears to kill her and her beloved dog Toto as well, stalking the girl as she makes her way across Oz and makes new friends. Threatening the entire Emerald City with death if they don't surrender Dorothy, the Witch eventually captures Dorothy and plans to painfully, slowly kill Toto and her entire group of friends while forcing Dorothy to watch before murdering the girl as well.
I’m going to stay out of these previous discussions because I missed them completely and don’t know anything about there works.
Anyways I just wanted to get this quick song one out of the way.
What’s the work?
Johnny Cash is a famous country music singer-songwriter from Arkansas.
Today we’ll be looking at one of his more obscure songs, The Ballad of Annie Palmer
(lyrics
), a song based on the myth of The White Witch of Rose Hall
Who is Annie Palmer? what has she done?
Annie Palmer was the owner of a sugar and tomato plantation at Rose Hall, where about five thousand enslaved people worked.
Her slaves all lived in fear of disappointing her because she would whip them on her whipping post.
Palmer is also a Black Widow who has murdered three of her husbands and allegedly buried them beneath the palm trees on the beach.
Palmer died before the song starts but the narrator says that he can still feel her presence at the house and hear her murdered husbands cry out.
Redeeming qualities?
The song says that she favored some of her slaves over others, but that’s likely more about how hard they worked, as it’s noted in the song that all of her slaves lived in fear of her, so no redeeming qualities.
Heinousness?
Owns 5000 enslaved people that she whips and forces to work and murdered her 3 husbands, I’d say she makes it
Final verdict?
Keep
Sure to Annie.
Pending:
- The Bill: Craig Sutton
(Atlantis)
- The Foreigner (2017): Hugh McGrath
(Atlantis)
- Severyan Kondratyich
(Autumn)
- Maureen
(Crow)
- Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom: Kordax
(Polar)
- My Hero Academia: All For One (Riley
)
- Lantern Prime: (Turles)
- Astor
(umaprasis)
- Chris Gallagher
(Username)
I assume AFO will go before Muscular?

Sure to Hateful, but what do you mean "nothing more than" a sapient star?
Edited by ACW on Jan 9th 2024 at 1:22:56 PM