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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#24576: Aug 28th 2023 at 7:07:55 PM

[up] Trask seems most likely. Plus, if the comics' Ultimate Venom doesn't count there's not much chance of the video game's counting considering they were originally intended to be one and the same.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#24577: Aug 28th 2023 at 7:10:01 PM

[up] It's definitely Trask. I'm been meaning to do a EP on him for YEARS.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#24578: Aug 28th 2023 at 7:10:22 PM

Oooo spooky late night horror EP. And it's a revaluation of a candidate that previously had a botched proposal. Ooooooo.

What’s the Work?

"The Circus is Here" is a short manga story by Junji Ito.

As the title implies, the circus has come to town, and a young man, attracted to the performer Leiliya, attends the show with a full house. But while this circus may appear standard at first, as the show continues, the more bodies start piling up as each performer dies in some type of fatal accident.

There's a reason for that.

Who is He?

The Ringmaster is the jolly chief of the Papyrus Circus. But like most horror stories, there’s a little more to him than just that.

What has he done?

In actuality a demonic Death God taking the form of a human, the Ringmaster uses the woman Leiliya’s beauty to lure men to join his circus so that he can have them all die in freak accidents while performing, just so he can reap their souls.

With his latest show claiming the lives of all of his performers in fatal accidents, from the lion tamer getting mauled by his lion, to the firebreather getting burned alive, once everybody except Leiliya has died, the Ringmaster feigns sorrow and humbly requests volunteers for his next show. The entire crowd accepts his offer just to get close to Leiliya, as the story ends with everyone all set to die in the Ringmaster’s next show.

Redeeming Qualities?

Now the Ringmaster's previous EP failed to explain how genuinely sadistic he is. While he may be a Death God, the Ringmaster manipulates reality so that his innocent performers die prematurely, and is downright happy to be doing this.

The Ringmaster will do anything to keep his show going, such as having a clown who promised to escape with Leiliya killed by a knife stuck in the wall falling out and hitting him in the head, just so he can reap more souls. While a demon in nature, it doesn't affect the Ringmaster's enthusiasm to claim the lives of more poor unfortunate humans.

Heinousness?

The only villain in the story, with a sizable death count to match. Many are shown to die during this one show alone, with an entire crowd looking to meet the same fate. Meanwhile, Leiliya herself is entrapped, forced by the Ringmaster to lure young men to their deaths, which she is absolutely horrified at.

All in all, the Ringmaster? Not a very nice guy, just a petty sadist who enjoys luring humans to their deaths.

Conclusion

Nice and simple keeper

Edited by therealjackieboy on Aug 28th 2023 at 7:10:46 AM

It's Spooky Month!
Snailfish Silver Shamrock's Halloween three from Santa Mira, California Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Silver Shamrock's Halloween three
#24579: Aug 28th 2023 at 7:11:49 PM

[tup] Circusmaster. Mr. Ito, you've done it again!

All witches, all skeletons, all jack O Lanterns, gather round your TV set, put on your masks, and watch...watch the magic pumpkin, Watch...
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#24580: Aug 28th 2023 at 7:16:32 PM

Hell yes to the ringmaster shingami. Great work on the re-eval brother!

JoeBertInc (Pilot) Relationship Status: Abstaining
#24581: Aug 28th 2023 at 7:32:06 PM

Now this guy was talked about for CM a few years ago, but the debate was never finished. So I'm here to finish it.

    Nicholas Milberry from Luther 

What is the work?

Luther is a British psychological crime thriller television series starring Idris Elba as DCI John Luther, written by Neil Cross.

Luther is a ingenious but impulsive copper who is tormented by the dark side of humanity while hunting down various criminals throughout London. Once the self-destructive detective knows the killer's identity, it becomes a psychological duel between predator and prey.

Who is Nicholas Milberry and what has he done?

Nicholas Milberry is a major antagonist of Series 2 of Luther. He is twins with Robert Milberry, and the two are a serial killing duo, treating their crimes as a game, using biblical codes and 20-sided die to decide on who, how, and if they kill someone, and how many points their kills are worth, depending on the victims, witnesses, settings, and overall circumstances. However, Nicholas does not appear until the very end of the 3rd episode, as he enters a London train station. He then sits down and lays out several weapons, including a bat, a knife, hammer, and an acid gun to blind people. He then rolls his dice to dictate whether he kills or not. And, unfortunately, lets just say the citizens walking near him aren't very lucky thanks to what happens next.

In the season finale, the episode picks up right where it left off, with Nicholas terrorizing the train station, killing and injuring several people with his weapons before a police officer chases after him. After a while, Nicholas abruptly stops to stab and kill the officer before fleeing the scene. A while after, Nicholas is walking through a traffic-jamed street, looking into various cars. He then sporadically starts beating several people with his hammer in front of many witnesses before fleeing again. Later, Nicholas is communicating with "Robert", who is actually the police department impersonating Robert on the twins' blog, as Nicholas sadistically jokes about his plans for a massacre, saying that he's gonna be "Slaying Everyone and Laughing".

Soon after, the police arrives at his location attempting to apprehend him. Unfortunately, Nicholas has a dead man's switch attached to him, so if the police marksmen open fire on him, he would die, his hand would loosen from the switch, resulting in everyone within at least a 100 feet radius of him dying from the explosion. Nicholas then starts walking throughout London, threatening countless lives, including his, just so he won't be caught. Fortunately, people around his vicinity are evacuated due to his lethal threat. However, Luther, who is secretly wired, sees to him alone, pours flammable fuel on himself, and convinces Nicholas to kill him instead as he would be "the final boss" in his murderous game, and killing him would allow him to progress.

Nicholas agrees to play a game on whether Luther dies or not, going in a truck so no marksmen can see where to aim. Nicholas then sadistically orders Luther to dump all of the flammable fuel on himself, which Luther complies with. Nicholas then very hesitantly turns off the Dead Man's Switch before chuckling and rolling his dice to decide whether Luther dies. Luther then pretends to guess the number, but, as he is wired, cleverly tells the marksmen where to aim in the truck, resulting in Nicholas being gunned down and killed.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

Now this is the elephant in the room. While he nor Robert don't have any freudian excuses, its their potential care for each other. Luther even states that he thinks Robert and Nicholas are very close, even Robert asking Luther to tell Nicholas he loves him when he is caught. However, Nicholas isn't shown to express that same care for Robert. Even Luther, admits that despite their siblinghood, it will eventually come down to Robert vs Nick. And given Nicholas' subtly more ax-crazy personality, it is most likely that he was killing people not only for fun, but to upstage Robert as well.

Are they bad enough?

This is actually an easy case. Nicholas and Robert rack up the highest kill count in the series. I don't Robey from the movie should be an issue due to his vast resources compared to the rest of the criminals in the franchise. And despite their shared crimes, Nicholas does manage to outheinous Robert by threatening to kill himself and everyone near him with a bomb vest just to evade capture.

Final verdict?

I think a [tup] to this psycho two-face twin.

Edited by JoeBertInc on Aug 28th 2023 at 10:32:40 AM

MermaidEyes15 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#24584: Aug 28th 2023 at 8:41:32 PM

[tup] Nicholas Milberry

[tup] The Ringmaster

[tup] Lord Akira

Watch me destroying my country
TheGrayFox ....Phenomenal from A Lovecraftian fishing village Since: Sep, 2011
....Phenomenal
#24585: Aug 28th 2023 at 9:01:35 PM

[tup] for Keith, Akira, Ringmaster, and Nicholas.

[tdown] for Eddie.

There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#24586: Aug 28th 2023 at 9:10:09 PM

[tup] Keith (I actually discovered Gone to See the River Man yesterday) and Ringmaster

[tdown] Eddie

Abstaining on Nicholas

MermaidEyes15 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
#24587: Aug 28th 2023 at 9:14:42 PM

Anymore votes for my two candidates?

Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Aug 28th 2023 at 12:55:09 PM

Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#24588: Aug 28th 2023 at 9:17:29 PM

[up] You linked Jake twice.

Also, I just realized that Junji Ito will most likely have 8 CM entries to his belt, and if the Circusmaster is approved, that makes it 9 entries. When to start a separate CM page?

Eh, good enough.
Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#24589: Aug 28th 2023 at 9:26:51 PM

Abstain on Jake. Not sure he quite passes muster compared to the other villains across the comics and the games.


EDIT: Withdrawing Green Goblin 2099 for now as it seems I'm over the limit until the 30th.

Edited by Arawn999 on Aug 29th 2023 at 1:52:17 AM

ImSpidey2 UAC Marine Reject from somewhere you most likely cannot pronounce (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: Barbecuing
UAC Marine Reject
#24590: Aug 28th 2023 at 10:10:41 PM

[tup] 2099 Stormin' Norman

That being said, I have no source.
umaprasis Since: Jul, 2023
#24591: Aug 28th 2023 at 10:25:37 PM

What is the work?

Kirby: Planet Robobot is a game in the Kirby series released in 2016 for the 3ds that has Kirby's planet invaded by the Haltmann works company, and details the tragic story of its founder and his daughter, and I will be talking about a version of a character who aided and advised its founder in his invasion of planets across the universe.

Who is English!Parallel Knightmare returns Star Dream and what do they do?

Star Dream is the adviser and the strength behind Haltmann's invasions of planets where he mechanizes, and drains their planets of their resources destroying anyone deemed a problem.

In the extra mode instead of going destructive because of absorbing Haltmann in the main story, they go try to find a new admin not caring about Haltmann or the company when Haltmann is defeated by Meta Knight, and seeing him as a new potential admin tries to test him by summoning clones of past enemies which include Dark Matter, Sectonia and Galatca Knight who Haltmann forbid from being summoned and Star Dream without regret says could destroy two planets for the sake of a test.

Redeeming qualities and are they bad enough?

Unlike the Japanese version who wants to give Meta Knight a good challenge to please him as his new admin, the English version just puts up a test after Haltmann is defeated which is never shown to one Meta Knight excepts while not caring about Haltmann not allowing Galacta Knight to be summoned.

This mode is non canon to the future games so they don't have to compete anyone after it. The ones they have to compete with are Sectonia who was going to feast on everyone in Popstar, and Dark Meta Knight who corrupted her but Star Dream out does both of them by endangering two planets for a test and advising and helping Haltmann invade planets before the events of the game.

The main story does have a statement that Star Dream gained self awareness after absorbing Haltmann, but in the extra mode where they don't absorb Haltmann to be aware of the awfulness of the summoning Galacta Knight and doesn't care about going against the wishes of their past master just for a test.

They do praise Meta Knight for his power but is perfectly fine with endangering Meta Knight's home for a test Meta Knight didn't agree to.

Verdict?

I'm just going to abstain.

Splonk Harbinger of Cringe from Basement Since: Sep, 2022 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Harbinger of Cringe
#24592: Aug 28th 2023 at 10:25:47 PM

Bit late on this, but I'll give a weak yes to Chara.

My mere presence makes everyone's day worse.
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#24593: Aug 29th 2023 at 12:24:43 AM

[tup] to Keith, Akira, Ringmaster, Nicholas, 2099!Norman Osborn

Gonna abstain on Star Dream given Kirby’s track record on this thread

[tdown] to Ultimate!Venom

  • Out Of The Night issue #9’s “In the wake of the bomb”: King Mulhammin the Magnificent was the cruel and greedy ruler of the ancient kingdom of Karona. Under his reign, people outside of his palace are condemned to starvation, misery and death. Mulhammin responds to a peasant begging for food by having him thrown to the dogs and, when astronomers notice a mysterious black object hurtling towards Earth, he has 1000 maidens sacrificed to appease the gods.

Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#24594: Aug 29th 2023 at 1:36:05 AM

Didn't we discuss Star Dream already???

Eh, good enough.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#24595: Aug 29th 2023 at 1:39:22 AM

[tup]Keith, akira, Nicholas, and 2099 green goblin

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#24596: Aug 29th 2023 at 1:45:53 AM

Guys, can we please pause the effortposts? I just woke up and there are somehow like 8: over 2 pages.

Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#24597: Aug 29th 2023 at 1:53:21 AM

[up] I'm withdrawing Goblin 2099 for now since it seems I'm actually over the limit until the 30th.

Edited by Arawn999 on Aug 29th 2023 at 1:58:44 AM

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#24598: Aug 29th 2023 at 2:08:00 AM

Actually you can propose only from three works at the time. Since three of yours are from the same works you should be okay.

[down] Yeah, I forgot about movie Venom. You got a point.

Edited by EmperorGeode on Aug 29th 2023 at 2:35:36 AM

Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#24599: Aug 29th 2023 at 2:10:25 AM

I am at three, though:

  1. The Venom symbiote from Spider-Man 3
  2. Halloween Jack and Carnage 2099 from Spider-Man 2099: Dark Genesis
  3. Venom from Ultimate Spider-Man

Green Goblin 2099 is from Spider-Man 2099: Exodus.

Edited by Arawn999 on Aug 29th 2023 at 2:28:16 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP

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