TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Complete Monster Proposal Thread

Go To

Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

Purgatoryisof2 Since: Aug, 2022
#2426: Jan 27th 2023 at 7:26:48 AM

Alright, time for my second EP on this thread. I already proposed Agatha from the same series, time to propose another villain, this one far more heinous.

What's the work?

The Land Before Time XXVI: The Four Kinds Quest Part I is a Land Before Time fanfiction, part of a series written by Mongoose Lover on fanfiction.net, with that part being intended to be the first one of a three-part finale covering a takeover and war in the Great Valley. The candidate in question, however, comes from the Creation of the Four Kinds Tale, a seemingly in-universe tale about how dinosaurs split into four kinds. And the main antagonist of that tale is the candidate in question-the Lesser Circle.

Who is the Lesser Circle and what has she done?

The Lesser Circle is a goddess that serves as the main antagonist of the Tale. She is the sister of the main god, the Bright Circle (being the dinosaur word for the sun), who apparently was once an Earthy entity. According to the tale, the leaf-eaters, who were once one species, asked the Bright Circle for separate abilities, ranging from horns to long tails, to outdo each other. The Bright Circle refused, but the Lesser Circle seemingly overheard the request and granted it out of jealousy. This caused the dinosaurs to start fighting between each other, with it being described that blood stained the land. This caused the Bright Circle to make Sharpteeth and Egg Stealers in response as punishment, in addition to the Bothteeth, who were the most moral. The Lesser Circle reappears near the end of the tale, when a faction of Leaf Eaters who didn't become Bothteeth and were particularly vengeful asked it to give them the ability to hunt Leaf Eaters, Sharpteeth, and Eggstealers, in addition to being able to tank harder blows-their goal being world domination. The Lesser Circle, still jealous of her brother, granted the request, with the so-called Fanged Flatteeth becoming extremely resistant to environmental changes and many learning to eat eggs, becoming servants of the Lesser Circle. The Bright Circle finally got pissed off at his sister and banished her, turning her to the Night Circle, also known as the Moon.

Freudian Excuse or Mitigating Factors?

Yeah, no worries about anything remotely sympathetic from her. She only grants requests because of jealousy, has no displays of care for her minions, is motivated by jealousy of her brother being worshipped more, and operates on human emotions such as jealousy.

Now, the one concern I had is that she doesn't have enough characterization, since she only has the personality of being incredibly jealous. However, given it shows up twice, fully motivates her actions, and she has no implications of redeeming traits, I'd argue that it shows what kind of person she is and that she has nothing redeeming to her and is cognizant of being evil.

In addition, the work she's in is ongoing, but given she's been present in the same role in earlier drafts from over half a decade ago and her In-Universe tale was told in its entirety, I doubt that's a problem, since her arc seems to be over at the least and unlikely to be rewritten.

Does she meet the heinous standards?

For baseline, I'd argue yes. While she is a powerful goddess and has two actions, it's pretty clear they were worldwide and continued affecting the Four Kinds for generations. Also, even though it's never outright said "Oh, she knew that the leaf eaters started killing each other after she stained the land", given she knew of their wish with no prompting, her brother knew when she granted the Bothteeth their request, and she's a deity (which are omniscient), probably fair to say she knew, and yet not only didn't feel remorse, but continued the carnage by creating a species of hyper-adaptable murder machines to hunt the other four kinda just to further spite her brother.

For the heinous standard, even though the tale does appear to actually be real after all (since Fanged Flatteeth do turn out to be real and the tale is what proves their existence), causing her to compete with the other villains, an easy pass-she outheinousses all the other villains who appeared by far, having caused murders and bigotry worldwide for generations. Based on the authors blog and pages on fandom, alongside previous versions of the fic, there is a planned villain named Deino who either tries to starve the leaf eaters into submission or cause them to fight like the Lesser Circle did, but not only would it be shorter length than the Lesser Circle's actions, but he is a Fanged Flattooth, basically making the Lesser Circle responsible for his evil.

Verdict?

Not the strongest keeper, but a [tup] to the Lesser Circle in my eyes.

Edited by Purgatoryisof2 on Jan 27th 2023 at 10:27:46 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#2427: Jan 27th 2023 at 7:40:07 AM

Yes to Dean and the Colonel.

I assume "The Colonel" goes at the top of tree (or right below Travis)? Will Travis be getting an expansion?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#2428: Jan 27th 2023 at 7:42:30 AM

There can be a bit of expansion for Travis there. He doesn't do much new beyond some other murders and betray Eva. But suffice to say he's going nowhere. He has zero loyalty to Hitler or Eva, and tells Hitler straight up all he cares about is a clear line of succession so the Nazis will all obey him.

I'm not sure on Lesser Circle...if I'm reading that right, that's just a legend?

Regarding Turbo, i haven't tallied, but it seems that the votes are well against him. After this, I do believe we need a moratorium on him for art least a while. He's been downvoted many times now, twice in the last week alone

Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 27th 2023 at 7:43:49 AM

Purgatoryisof2 Since: Aug, 2022
#2429: Jan 27th 2023 at 7:44:28 AM

It might be, though the fact Fanged Flatteeth turn out to actually be real does indicate it was real after all.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#2430: Jan 27th 2023 at 7:47:05 AM

What should the order be for Hunters?

Katarina seems more prominent than Richter, while I'm not sure if Colonel (Big Bad) or Travis (The Heavy) should go first.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#2431: Jan 27th 2023 at 7:47:37 AM

Big [tup] to Eva, good work Lighty

And now my second and last Hunters candidate. Without further ado...

Who is He?

Adolf Hitler himself (played deliciously by Udo Kier, whom I'm surprised is just now playing Hitler after all these years), responsible for the deaths of millions during his glory years in WW2, faked his death alongside Eva Braun to hide out in Argentina.

What has he done?

Seeking to restore the glory of the Nazis by kickstarting the Fourth Reich, Hitler serves primarily as the Greater-Scope Villain of the first season, approving of Eva/The Colonel’s plan to unleash a virus to wipe out millions of minorities, and ends the season kidnapping Hunters member Joe Mizushima to torturously brainwash him into becoming an ally.

Come Season 2, when the Hunters kill his prized assassin “The Crow” upon their arrival in South America, Hitler orders Joe and Travis to kill the Hunters and bring him their scalps. Bragging to Eva that he’s "killed more people in six years and one day than Genghis Khan killed in 200 years", Hitler devises a plan to acquire a nuke and have it drop it over a major city like D.C., London, or Moscow to instigate another massive world war so that he can come out on top, even acting smug about how nobody in the government will care enough to find him.

Upon his attainment by the Hunters, Hitler is put on trial, where we hear tons of stories from former concentration camp prisoners about how cruel and horrible the camps were. Hitler scoffs these stories as nothing but lies to his (Jewish) lawyer, claiming to have been simply escorting the Jews out of the country. Despite his pleas of innocence, Hitler ultimately descends into rambling about how he was in fact responsible for creating the Holocaust. Upon being declared guilty for the crimes of... well, everything, Hitler plots his escape.

Escorted out by the police, Hitler pulls a Hitler and chomps on a hidden cyanide pill to get himself on an ambulance driven by one of his Nazi spies, who saves his life and takes him to his bunker base. But that really means nothing as the Hunters and police intercept, arresting Hitler for good. Last we see of the once great dictator, he’s yelling and screaming in his cell, upset that none of the guards treat him with the respect he thinks he deserves.

Redeeming Qualities?

Nein! No matter how hard he tries to sell himself as a man doing what's right, Hitler is, at his core, a childish monster who utterly fails to disguise just how horrible his actions are.

Hitler shows no care for Eva, having seduced her when she was 17 to be his bride, and even abuses her whenever she disapproves of his grand scheme. We see the ghosts of his many many many victims, and we see his former prisoners tell horrific stories about how cruel and horrible he is. Hitler tries to paint every country as a hypocrite for judging him, but well... he’s Hitler, so his argument’s automatically invalid.

Heinousness?

He's Hitler. Responsible for millions of deaths, had a helping hand in one of the worst genocides in recent history, and even in the present, he's still up to his old tricks of desiring world domination by any means necessary.

Conclusion

He's Hitler. Need I say more?

It's Spooky Month!
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#2432: Jan 27th 2023 at 7:47:42 AM

[tup] to The Colonel and Dean

Need to think more on The Lesser Circle

I think we can probably put Turbo right back on resolved items, since he came up twice in like a single week after his removal

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#2433: Jan 27th 2023 at 7:53:14 AM

Hitler's a yes. That said, I think I need to say wait and see on Lesser Circle. If the fic is ongoing and she only "might" exist, I don't think we have enough here. She seems barely touched upon

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#2434: Jan 27th 2023 at 7:53:22 AM

I am fine with [tup] to The Lesser Circle especially if the myth around her is connected to things that still affect the fic's universe. We do have characters like the Bloodstone Emperor from ASOIAF who is also a myth and he is connected to the biggest cataclysm in the ASOIAF universe according to the story, so we use the story-within-story approach for him.

[tup] to Hitler, Dean and Eva

Edited by WatTambor on Jan 27th 2023 at 7:07:07 PM

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#2436: Jan 27th 2023 at 7:56:58 AM

Yes to Hitler. Apparently NOT Kier's first time.

Someone please gimme the order for Travis/Eva/Hitler; and should I move Katarina above Richter?

[down]Cool.

Edited by ACW on Jan 27th 2023 at 11:02:45 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#2437: Jan 27th 2023 at 7:58:05 AM

Hitler>Eva>Travis>Richter>Katarina

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#2438: Jan 27th 2023 at 8:01:49 AM

Easy [tup] Hitler and Ms. Hitler.

A MASSIVE historical villain upgrade for the latter.

Edited by xie323 on Jan 27th 2023 at 8:10:31 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#2439: Jan 27th 2023 at 8:01:51 AM

[tup]Colonel and Hitler.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
#2440: Jan 27th 2023 at 8:02:54 AM

[tup] to Dean, The Colonel, and Adolf Hitler.

May need to think more on The Lesser Circle

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#2441: Jan 27th 2023 at 8:02:58 AM

Yup to Hitler. Holding off on Circle until the fic is complete.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jan 27th 2023 at 11:04:39 AM

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#2442: Jan 27th 2023 at 8:04:11 AM

Yes to Eva and Hitler. Cautious no to Lesser Circle if the fic is still ongoing.

Purgatoryisof2 Since: Aug, 2022
#2443: Jan 27th 2023 at 8:05:18 AM

I should say, I do agree with Wat that even if whether she's an actual entity is kinda ambiguous, she could simply be considered a Show Within a Show candidate. Hell, it'd even help her given she wouldn't have to compete with Deino or his minions. And again, the tale she's in ended with no indication she's returning, so her arcs solidly done.

Edited by Purgatoryisof2 on Jan 27th 2023 at 11:08:27 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#2444: Jan 27th 2023 at 8:05:34 AM

Btw I finished watching a walkthrough of the last dlc of Stranger of Paradise: Final Fantasy Origin. PM me for details. We uh have stuff to talk about later.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#2445: Jan 27th 2023 at 8:08:04 AM

[tup] Gordon, Dean, Eva Braun (quite the villainy upgrade), and Hitler himself.

Not sure on Lesser Circle, I could see it working as a Show Within a Show case but if the fic is still ongoing and he is implied to actually be real it might be best to wait.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#2447: Jan 27th 2023 at 8:15:08 AM

Speaking of Hitler and Eva, I have two "Nazi" candiates coming up soon to discuss, none of them are related to Hunters but one of them is the other Death of Russia candiate I've kinda alluded to(a bit more of a debate than Dugin and Barkashov due to how common genocides happen in post-collapse Russia but I think is worth a discussion) and the other one is a character in a MLP fanfic(well actually a HOI4 mod) whose a fictionalized ponyfied portrayal of a rather notorious Neo-Nazi OTL.

(ignore the above post. It was done in bad taste considering the context and the planned proposals will be shelved for some time)

[tdown] Land before Time fanfic candidate, we might need to see the fic to it's completion first and there is a chance this goddess could appear if the myth was true.

Edited by xie323 on Jan 27th 2023 at 9:04:04 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#2448: Jan 27th 2023 at 8:16:16 AM

Oh, and here's Manny's writeup.

  • Manny Sherman was a small-time serial killer who left behind a sinister legacy. Known as the "Beast of Arkansas" who sought to leave his mark on the world after being inspired by H.H. Holmes, Sherman would lure female realtors to abandoned houses near airports so that he could murder them as planes flew over them, happily knowing that nobody would hear their screams no matter how hard they yelled. With thirteen murders under his belt, after being arrested and put on death row by FBI Agent Hector Munday, Sherman manipulates the mentally deteriorating Munday into becoming a serial killer like himself, allowing him to become the dreaded Granthem Du’Met and kill hundreds of people, just as Sherman hoped would happen.

It's Spooky Month!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#2449: Jan 27th 2023 at 8:18:40 AM

MLP fanfic(well actually a HOI 4 mod) whose a fictionalized ponyfied portrayal of a rather notorious Neo-Nazi OTL minus said Neo-Nazi's human qualities in the real world.

I'll be very fair in voting, but I have to ask if this is well and truly necessary and not like super offensive.

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#2450: Jan 27th 2023 at 8:22:41 AM

Thinking about it, I have to agree with the others, switching to [tdown] on the Circle. I still maintain my stance that even if she doesn't exist, we can still list her based on how she is portrayed in the myth, but if the fanfic is still ongoing, there is a chance she might appear within the story itself and gain mitigating factors. We can discuss her again once the fanfic is over.

Edited by WatTambor on Jan 27th 2023 at 7:22:57 PM


Total posts: 60,500
Top