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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#24127: Aug 24th 2023 at 3:28:25 PM

Yes to Drasferatu and Noscula.

And I saw mother! Many years ago. And you know what, I had my doubts, but you convinced me Lighty. Yes to Him. Weird, weird film. Very allegorical. I liked it though. But I don't think I can ever recommend it.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#24128: Aug 24th 2023 at 3:38:24 PM

Yes to Nosferatu. Not sure what issue can be taken with him tbh. There’s a clear difference between this and the final product.

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#24130: Aug 24th 2023 at 3:41:12 PM

[tup] to Dracula(s)

Couldn't think of what tropes fits General Aguila so I used The Starscream. Now I wonder if his video game counterpart and the junior novelization counts (yes the latter is a thing).

  • TMNT: General Aguila is one of the Stone Generals and the film's true main villain. The brother of the warlord Yaotl, Aguila aided his brother in his destructive conquest to conquer the planet where they killed many and attempted to use the Star of Kekaan to gain more power only to be turned into stone with his other siblings with his brother becoming immortal. As shown in the tie-in comics, Aguila would be worshipped by those who came to him as a god with immense power, being influenced by his presence and causing mass amount of bloodshed as part of a sacrifice to him. In the present, Aguila would be brought back by Max Winters, Yaotl in the modern times, to help him find all 13 monsters release by the portal and undo their curse of immortality. Aguila lacks his brother's desire to atone for his actions and desires to remain immortal. He convinces the other generals to betray him and sabotage his efforts, revealing his plans to unleash hordes of monsters for him to bring utter destruction upon the Earth and conquer what's left.

[down] sure I'll go with it, I could go either way

Edited by Powermaster201 on Aug 24th 2023 at 6:57:18 AM

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#24132: Aug 24th 2023 at 3:57:10 PM

[tup] Jabberwocky, Fallon, Script Drac and Final Movie Drac.

As for HIM, though, I dunno, he seems really damn upset when his followers try to rape Mother, even physically pulling them off her. Granted, the next thing he does is to tell her that if she doesn't forgive them, she would be the one in the wrong, so... count me as an abstain.

Edited by HamburgerTime on Aug 24th 2023 at 5:57:30 AM

TheGrayFox ....Phenomenal from A Lovecraftian fishing village Since: Sep, 2011
....Phenomenal
#24133: Aug 24th 2023 at 4:09:04 PM

[tup] for Script Dracula. Going off the EPs, it sounds like he has a pretty distinct rapsheet from the final version, this isn't a case of trying to loophole in the exact same villain twice or anything.

Edited by TheGrayFox on Aug 24th 2023 at 4:09:30 AM

There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#24134: Aug 24th 2023 at 4:12:29 PM

I see no one has taken the One Piece (2023) live action show?

Anyone want,to split. Worst case scenario we get something to laugh at. Best it might,be good.,

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#24135: Aug 24th 2023 at 4:48:14 PM

Yes to Jabberwocky, Fallon, Both Draculas and Him

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#24136: Aug 24th 2023 at 5:07:14 PM

Yes to Him, Dracula (great film) and Nosferatu

Likewise not seeing the issue with upvoting a script version of a character, especially here since there's a lot of differences.

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#24137: Aug 24th 2023 at 5:45:52 PM

I'd be cool with splitting the show with you, miraculous.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#24138: Aug 24th 2023 at 6:12:49 PM

Sure. I'll put us down.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
KJsixteen BORK from The Alola Region Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
BORK
#24139: Aug 24th 2023 at 8:30:40 PM

[tup]To Wabbajack!note 

Edited by KJsixteen on Aug 24th 2023 at 9:31:56 AM

Google Snake Game.
fractyl Since: May, 2023
#24140: Aug 24th 2023 at 10:32:19 PM

I wanted to cover some antagonists from the Seven Deadly Sins franchise that would deserve notability as Complete Monsters.

First is Cath Palag, who admits that he only protected Arthur so he could eat him once he becomes Chaos's host while openly mocking the youth for ever thinking they are friends. He then tortured Arthur by revealing Camelot was destroyed in the Holy War, adding it would have happened sooner or later in a nihilistic tirade that ties with his overall goal of destroying everything as a sick sense of mercy. He even forces the protagonists to accept his ideals by subjecting them to a Lotus Eater machine, having Meliodas face a life without Elizabeth when she dies for good of old age.

Next is Deathpierce. In the first series, he was forced to watch his mentor killed by Derieri and then got brainwashed into a suicidal foot soldier by Ludociel. When Melodias (a demon) and Elizabeth (a goddess in human form) inherit the Liones throne, Deathpierce refused to swear fidelity to them and left to rebuild his homeland, devastated by vampires, as a human-only kingdom. He gradually loses his sanity, his friends deserting him while he accepts Arthur's aid. He uses the power Arthur gave him to fuse demons with giants and fairies, the latter two only guilty by association, using one of his creations to make Meliodas suffer by cursing Elizabeth. By the time he is confronted by their son Tristan, Deathpierce gleefully admits that his actions all stem from not having the honor to kill Derieri (though he tried) and Ludociel himself.

Edited by fractyl on Aug 24th 2023 at 10:32:50 AM

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#24141: Aug 24th 2023 at 11:11:22 PM

[up] A quick look at the characters page tells me Cath is an Anthropomorphic Personification of destruction, a big no-no. And, according to your own post, Deathpierce has a solid Freudian Excuse, being driven to villainy by the loss of his mentor.

TotemGenitor Bye Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Mr-ex777 Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#24143: Aug 25th 2023 at 12:32:38 AM

[up] x2 I'm not familiar with the subject, but seems like nobody save for God and Satan a.k.a. the Demon King and Supreme Goddess can qualify? It's actually funny tbh.


[tup] to the Vampires

Edited by Mr-ex777 on Aug 26th 2023 at 3:33:46 AM

CapitanoNox Lord of Space from Italy Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Lord of Space
#24144: Aug 25th 2023 at 4:22:37 AM

Ok so, this character was actually already proposed as a duo, and while his partner was approved this guy wasn't. However, the original EP didn't mention something that I personally think could be important to decide this dude's status, so here I am for a reproposal.

What is the work?

Artifacts and Antiquity is a videogame created by Zed_Technician. It focuses on a woman named Grace who, after losing her job, goes to work as a security guard at Stahl & Co. Shipping Company.

However things turn bad fast as a nameless Egyptian goddess comes to warn her and her friends that some artifacts were stolen from her fellow deities and that if they aren't returned, it means the end for everyone.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

Thoth is an Egyptian god who is very willing to bring the end of humankind. With help of Sekhmet and her minions, Thoth tries to prevent the heroes from collecting the artifacts in time.

There are various endings: in one the artifacts aren't returned and the world ends, in another the artifacts are returned but someone dies, and finally the ending where the artifacts are returned and no one dies, which is the ending that interests us the most since at the end of it we see Thoth and Sekhmet as well: after collecting all the artifacts, the nameless goddess uses them to summon the Protector, an unstoppable warrior that easily gets rid of Sekhmet's minions. At this point Thoth appears, deciding to yield and leaving alongside Sekhmet, but not before revealing-after Grace asks him why the two of them want to destroy humanity so badly-that they want to remake them for fun, something that they've already done multitiple times before.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is why he was downvoted the first time: because him taking his defeat as well as he did made him look like a Fair-Play Villain. While I do admit that Thoth takes his defeat particularly well, I don't think he can really be considered honorable given that he's the one admitting he and Sekhmet find pleasure in destroying and recreating humanity, and mocking Grace as she calls him out (to quote him: "If you don’t like our methods then come stop us. Oh that’s right, you can’t. You’re far too insignificant for that, aren’t you? Ha ha ha!"). At this point one might say "Yeah ok, he's definitely an asshole, but that doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't have a bit of honor in him. After all he's the one to convince Sekhmet to leave when the latter says it isn't over yet. If he had really wanted to, he could've just stayed there", and yeah I can get this argument, but think about it: at that point the artifacts had all been collected, and used to summon what's described as "an unstoppable warrior". Do you really think Thoth would have gained anything from staying there beyond an ass beating? This isn't him being honorable, it's just him being smart, with him himself saying he and Sekhmet can't do anything else for the night. The mere fact that Sekhmet herself, who from the little we see seems more aggressive and impulsive than Thoth, gets convinced by him relatively easily to leave as well in my opinion proves that against the Protector the two really couldn't have done anything.

So yeah, overall Thoth to me doesn't seem a honorable villain, but a smart Faux Affably Evil guy who doesn't seem to want to stress too much over the fact he lost (probably because he also realizes he's an immortal god who can afford to wait and try another time).

Are they bad enough?

Yes. Thoth is an outright Omnicidal Maniac who has destroyed and remade humanity multiple times for fun, with really only Sekhmet being as bad as him, and since the two strictly work together he easily stands out.

Final verdict?

Yes to me.

Edited by CapitanoNox on Aug 25th 2023 at 5:12:04 PM

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#24145: Aug 25th 2023 at 7:45:12 AM

Makes sense to me. Yes to Thoth, the Jabberwock, Fallon, Him, Dracula and Nosferatu.

Finished up the Avatar Yangchen duology. Like on MB, no one counts:

  • The main villain, Chaisee, invents the tortuous and often fatal process of creating Combustionbenders, killing off nearly an entire island as she puts people through these trials. But she's also positioned as a more pragmatic, respectful foe compared to the other Big Bad Henshe, and—while it's heavily steeped in a desire for a legacy—it's indicated she genuinely loves her husband and son.
  • Henshe, when he realizes he's going to lose everything, has three of the Combustionbenders begin blowing up parts of his city. But that's stopped immediately before it can even begin or otherwise escalate, so all he's got is an intent for vague amounts of carnage.
  • Thapa, the leader of the Combustionbenders, nearly crushes a village with a landslide as he escapes from prison. But that's pretty small potatoes by Avatar's standards, and it's indicated that he built up a genuine rapport with his guards that led to him sparing them.
  • The Earth King is a paranoid maniac willing to go to war with half the world, but he's ultimately cowed into merely making everything inconvenient for everyone on a political level.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#24146: Aug 25th 2023 at 8:14:44 AM

Hey guys, I got a lot of CM candidates on my to do list to work on, especially the Like A Dragon Ishin one, especially since I've been taking too long to do them. While I'm working on the Ishin EP, here's a EP from a film that I think should have some pretty easy keepers:

What's the Work?:

The Sea Beast is a 2022 Netflix animated film that stars a young orphan girl named, Maisie Brumble and a sea monster hunter named, Jacob Holland, as their search for a sea monster named the Red Bluster. You see, Jacob is a part of a Sea Monster group led by Captain Augustus Crow III, with said group being finically backed by the King and Queen of the Crown, and Crow's goal is to kill all sea monsters in the hopes of ending a war that was believed to have been caused by the Sea Monsters. Turns out that this was nothing was but a lie. A lie that was orchestrated by the Monarchs, a lie that was continued by none other than the film's true villains, the King and Queen themselves.

Who are the King and Queen of the Crown? What do they do?:

The King and Queen of the Crown are the rulers of Three Bridges who have kickstarted a genocidal campaign against the Sea Monsters, claiming that they were wreaking havoc against humankind and that killing them would help bring a era of peace, sending groups of sailors called, hunters to kill the beasts. But what everyone, including the hunters don't know is that is actually a lie that was created generations ago by the monarchs.

In reality, the Sea Monsters were actually sapient, peaceful, gentle creatures that were never aggressive unlike provoked, and that it the was the Monarchs themselves that started the war by lying about the monsters and sending the hunters to kill them, with the creatures only fighting back to defend themselves. This war not only results in the deaths of the beasts themselves, but also countless hunters who end up perishing in battle with the beasts. The current King and Queen would continue the lie that their predecessors created in the hopes of expanding their empire and satisfying their greed, uncaring of the lives that were lost before or during their rule, which results in plenty of the children becoming orphans due to the deaths of their parents, who perished in battle with the beasts. One of the many ships that were destroyed during their reign was the Monarch, which includes Maisie's parents and the General's brother.

The King and Queen are introduced in the film meeting with Captain Crow, who had just killed one of the sea beasts and had come to the collect the bounty. Rather than be grateful for this, the King and Queen instead express disappointment for Crow choosing to save the lives of the hunters of another ship, instead of killing the legendary sea beast known as the Red Bluster and refuses to pay them, showing just how little they care for lives of others. They then proceed to tell them the time of hunters is over and they would no longer be supporting them. Instead, they're going to have the Royal Navy, led by the smug Admiral Hornagold, take out the rest of the beasts.

Captain Crow is against as he claims that Hornagold's ship, The Imperator, is ill fitted for the job, saying that it rests too low, the cannons being useless due to the fixed angle, and that its captain is an ass. Crow believes that with these factors, the ship won't stand a chance, and will only result in the deaths of the entire crew, but the King and Queen choose to ignore him and order the guards to escort Crow out of the castle. This results in Crow angrily calling the King and Queen cowards as while the hunters had shed blood for the people, all the King and Queen do is hide behind the castle walls, resulting in them ordering for Crow to be arrested and for his ship, the Inevitable, decommissioned. Fortunately, Jacob is able to defuse the situation by offering a deal: Should the hunters should be the ones to successfully capture the Red Bluster first, the hunters would remain and the King and Queen would continue their alliance. But if Hornagold's Royal Navy captures the beast first, then the Inevitable will be decommissioned and the time of the hunters will be over. Knowing that they'll benefit from either result, the King and Queen pragmatically agree to this and declares it to be a contest. The Royal Navy would eventually find the Red Bluster and just as Crow predicted, the Imperator doesn't last even a minute against the beast, which nearly results in the deaths of the entire Royal Navy, including Hornagold if not for Jacob's intervention.

Eventually, Crow and his crew are able to successfully capture the Red Bluster and bring it back to Three Bridges, and prepares to kill it to prove to the King and Queen that the time of the hunters is not over. Fortunately, Jacob, having befriended the beast alongside with Maisie upon discovering that beast was a benevolent creature that only attacks when provoked, stops Crow from doing the deed, and tries to convince him to spare the beast. Unfortunately Crow, blinded by his hatred towards the beasts stemmed from the lies he was told, refuses to listen and attacks Jacob. Fortunately, Maisie, with some help with Crow's first mate, Sarah Sharpe, is able to free the Red Bluster from her restraints.

Unfortunately, the beast accidentally destroys the Inevitable and part of the castle as she is still recovering from the poison Crow used to capture her. The King and Queen decides to take advantage of this, and accuses the hunters of bringing the beast for malicious reasons, while also ordering for their guards to open fire upon the beast. The cannon balls have no effect on the beast however, resulting in the King and Queen starting to run away, shoving the guards out of their way, just to save their own skin, while the beast prepares to attack Crow for his cruelty towards her. Fortunately, Maisie is able to calm her down, telling her that if she kills Crow, the cycle of violence with never end, with assisting Maisie by breaking Crow's spear, declaring an end to the monster hunts.

Maisie then reveals the truth of "dark times" to the people of Three Bridges, revealing the creatures were actually peaceful until the Monarchs attacked them, with the King and Queen allowing the lie to continue to expand their rule and satisfy their rule with complete disregard to the lives that were lost, human or beast. Angered by the girl discovering the truth, the King and Queen order for the guards to open fire on Maisie, a young orphan child. Fortunately, the general refuses to give the command, saying that her brother died on the Monarch and wanted to learn the truth on how the war started, while the people turn against the King and Queen and demand for the beast to go free. Knowing that they won't be able to lie their lie out of this one, the King and Queen cowardly flee back into the castle as the monster hunts are brought to an end for good. What happens to the King and Queen after this is unknown.

Heinous Standard?:

Not a problem, while it's true that they didn't START the hunts, they still willingly continue the lie that Sea Monsters were evil just so they can expand their empire and satisfy their greed, uncaring of the fact that the war resulted in the deaths of both hunters and beast alike, with even more deaths occurring during their reign, which includes the crew of the Monarch, which includes Maisie's parents. And it's not offscreen stuff either, at the beginning we see the aftermath of a monster destroying a hunter and killing nearly everyone on it aside from a young Jacob, while we a monster being killed onscreen by Captain Crow, and the film confirms that many, MANY humans and monsters died from this war, with the beasts themselves being sapient as the Red Bluster shows. Oh, and they were perfectly willing to kill a little girl just for ratting them out. So yeah, I believe they make it.

Migrating Factors?:

None. They don't care about anything except their desires and greed, perfectly willing to send many hunters to die just to get what they want. The head of a orphanage claims that the King and Queen provide care for the orphan kids out of kindness, but considering that they are the reason the kids are orphaned in the first, and the fact that were perfectly willing to kill Maisie, a young orphan girl, just for exposing them, it's pretty clear that they only provide care for the orphans just to protect their public image. And there is nothing to show that they care for each other, with their marriage likely being a loveless political union due to the lack of care and love towards of each other. So yeah, basically nothing here.

Conclusion:

In conclusion, a pretty easy yes in my eyes, but what do you guys think?

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Aug 25th 2023 at 8:39:12 AM

MojoJoJoke from Right behind you Since: Apr, 2021
#24147: Aug 25th 2023 at 8:31:02 AM

[tdown] to King & Queen. I don't recall if the film ever made it clear if they know the Sea Beasts aren't actively Malicious or if they themselves believe the lie that their ancestors started. I don't think them being stubborn assholes clinging to their own power is enough to qualify them as CM.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#24148: Aug 25th 2023 at 8:33:21 AM

[up] Actually the film makes it clear that they know, especially since they start to run away the moment that general question them about how the wars started. Not to mention that clearly don't care about the soldiers they sent to die. Oh, when Maisie orders their lie, the King and Queen ordered for her to be killed.

[down] Just split the paragraphs, does that help?

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Aug 25th 2023 at 8:38:24 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#24149: Aug 25th 2023 at 8:36:31 AM

I guess sure to Thoth.

Henshe DOES try though, doesn't he?

Micheal, please break up those walls of text.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#24150: Aug 25th 2023 at 8:39:32 AM

Yeah, I'm kinda not sure about the King and queen, but kinda leaning nay atm. I've seen the film and I...really didn't get the "pure evil" feel from all they've done, in addition to them hardly being the ones who started it


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