Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
Yes to Emokinia
Unsure on the Maintenance Man, it's always seemed to me like the only thing that gives him any personality or presence is a recreation where he explicitly speaks in terms that imply he knows he's a recreation (given the "centuries" line) and therefore it's kind of debatable if he's actually a proper representation of the OG rapist? Idk, when I played the game I took him as less his own entity and moreso just another representation of how messed up AM is that he's putting Ellen through it again.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Yeah like he explicitly says "AM gave me the chance to be with you forever! I waited in the sarcophagus until you arrived. What's a mere hundred years compared to an eternity of torturing you?", and references that he's ultimately just a figment when he proclaims "I'm back! You thought you had blocked me out of your memory forever, except for those inconvenient attacks of hysteria every now and then. But now, I've returned for you!...Now you will remember more than the color of my clothing!"
It's just difficult to say the OG rapist is given sufficient characterization when this recreation is explicitly knowledgeable about the fact that he's under AM's thumb and seems tied to Ellen's memory and fear—given he knows things about her that the actual rapist wouldn't (like her pathological fear of yellow), and that he vanishes the literal second she decides to fight back—so everything he says and does doesn't really, IMO, characterize the actual Maintenance Man.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Emokina
I'm gonna abstain on the Maintenance man
Probably don't need to but I'm calling dibs on Sea of Stars it releases 2 weeks from today
"We'll meet again" | 🏳️⚧️Alrighty, final Kona5 EP here we go!
What’s the Work?
Sukutte is the second installment of Kona5's Verse, and yet another horror adventure game.
When teenager Kondo "Konchi" Chiyo goes missing after going inside a haunted, abandoned house, her best friend Abe "Mari" Marisa investigates. But the house contains something far graver beyond obtuse puzzles in the form of a skinless flesh monster that's killed all who dared to enter.
While Mari's able to escape the house with Konchi before the monster could get them, a playable epilogue released a bit afterward gives us more insight as to how the monster came to be. And it's all because of these people.
Who are They?
Prof. Nakada and Chinko are the two brains behind the creation of the monster and all the murder that ensues.
What have they done?
Chinko, desiring the ultimate biological weapon (I'm guessing to sell for money), gets Nakada to create a monster for her under threat of murder, with Nakada happily accepting her offer.
Having their associate Yokoyama kidnap a teenage girl named Shigemi, the three proceed to torturously experiment on her to turn her into a fleshless creature, even filming the experiment in all of its painful glory. With Shigemi becoming a mindless menace, to test out her potential, Chinko and Nakada have her reside in an abandoned house to kill its intruders, all of whom being teenagers. Meanwhile, the team conduct their research in the house's basement.
With Shigemi killing two sisters in the beginning and then killing a couple later on, upon the escape of BFFs Mari and Konchi, Nakada lets it slide, since he feels Shigemi's proved herself a capable weapon, and he feels that they've gathered enough data to make her even stronger. Chinko, meanwhile, is furious, and threatens to murder Yokoyama upon hearing the news from him. Making a getaway from the house after the friends' escape, Nakada states that he hopes to kidnap Mari to turn her into a biological weapon like Shigemi.
But after Shigemi's able to recover her memories after her encounter with the two besties, Shigemi breaks out of her containment and kills two scientists, where it's implied she kills Nakada and Yokoyama. Chinko, meanwhile, isn't in the vicinity, so we don't know what happens to her.
Redeeming Qualities?
None. While Nakada is under Chinko's thumb, he still happily gets to work on torturing and drugging Shigemi with no regrets, coldly valuing Shigemi as nothing more than an experiment. Chinko, meanwhile, is a psychopath who threatens murder whenever things don't go her way.
Heinousness?
While Emokinia and Alice are two supernatural beings, Nakada and Chinko are purely human, and both willing to have young people killed and experimented on for the sake of money.
Chinko's the financier of the project who is implied to have financed criminal activity like this more than once ("I have destroyed all evidences and nothing is left behind. I have gotten so used to this kind of stuff, no worry."), while Nakada hopes to continue his experiments even after supposedly perfecting Shigemi.
Yokoyama doesn't count, as despite being onboard with Chinko and Nakada's plans, he does show to have something standards when Chinko threatens to kill Shigemi for failing to kill the sisters, showing that he has a bit of respect for her.
I also want to bring up that Shigemi returns in Pilgrim (RPG Maker), where she potentially kills the heroic Suu. So yeah, chalk that up once again to Chinko and Nakada.
Conclusion
For having not a whole lot of resources and mainly competing with beings of greater power than them, I think these two hit the mark.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Aug 15th 2023 at 3:49:56 AM
It's Spooky Month!
Nakada and Chinko
Here's the current tally for MM:
Yes (12): Mermaid, Atlantis, Geode, ACW, Lighty, Wat, Capitano, G-Editor, Snoke, MGD, KJ, Flower
No (11): Crow, Miraculous, 43110, DoodSlayer, Lore, Ravok, Jackie, Austin, Library, Snowy, Billy
Abstaining (3): NTG, GrayFox, Purgatory
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Aug 16th 2023 at 2:29:48 PM
Mad Scientist duo.
Holy shit Kona5 villains are insane.
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Aug 15th 2023 at 9:40:58 PM

for Emokinia And the Maintenance Man (I think the latter does just enough to be considered)
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff