Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
I've been playing Master Detective Archives: Rain Code, and even though the game has been out for a month, I haven't seen an EP for Yomi Hellsmile. I'm only halfway through the game, particularly when he ordered Martina to get grinded up in a trash compactor for her failure. So, without spoiling too much, is the reason he hasn't been suggested because he had a last minute redeeming quality?
Haven't heard of that game,it's possible it's just that no one here has played it
"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️![]()
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Quite frequently, the reason nobody's suggested ([x] character) is just that.... it hasn't come up. There's only so many of us frequenting the thread after all, we don't know every piece of media that exists and we can't evaluate every villain out there, only the ones people actually bring up for discussion. If you finish the game and still think this Hellsmile guy fits, you'd be welcome to propose him yourself.
for Mother and Mongul, by the way.
x 5 and to add, compared to the other And I Must Scream fates, such as Rolo and Daly, this was more horrific due to the amount of time and complete and utter alone it was in. Kinda fitting the tropes original material lol.
Here's your double dose of space opera WTF:
- Xenosaga:
- Patriarch Sergius XVII presents himself as the beloved spiritual leader of the galaxy, but in truth is the mastermind behind behind the U-TIC terrorist organization who seeks to conquer humanity. Once the owner of the original Zohar supercomputer, Sergius boosted its power by wiring it up to two innocent little Realian girls, keeping them in agony for over a decade while having them and the Zohar experimented on. When the Zohar was lost in the destruction of Old Miltia, Sergius began a crusade to get it back using U-TIC, and once he succeeds, he activates the Omega System to force all of galactic civilization to submit to him under penalty of death.
- Dr. Dmitri Yuriev is the appallingly selfish "father" to major protagonist Junior, major antagonist Albedo, and over six hundred other cloned "children." The first human to make contact with the Sentient Cosmic Force U-DO, Yuriev lives for centuries afterward, driven by fear of the entity and a desire to destroy it. Creating his clone "family," Yuriev sends them off to die in scores in the war against U-TIC, and periodically steals their bodies to cheat death. Resurrecting himself through his final creation Gaignun Kukai, Yuriev massacres all of Gaignun's staff when they get in his way, and retrieves the Zohar and the Omega System after Sergius' death to attempt to make himself into a god powerful enough to slay U-DO once and for all.
Sergius is only physically in II, but he's the Greater-Scope Villain of I since all the villains there are working for U-TIC, which he runs.
Dmitri is in II and III.
And I don't believe so, no, though some think -saga is a prequel to -gears.
Edited by HamburgerTime on Aug 8th 2023 at 7:03:02 AM
Griffith/Femto, Sweyn, Eleanor, Mother, Mongul.
Also, isn't the official name of Griffith's mercenary crew the 'Band of the Falcon" in reference to the Millennium Falcon from Star Wars, with "Hawk" having been a mistranslation?
Edited by Arawn999 on Aug 8th 2023 at 11:18:21 AM
Eleanor, Greg, Wendigo, Jack, Mongul, Grodd, Mother, Maximillian, Louis Crawford, Griffith, Anthrasax, Chares, Bureaucrat, Zombie, Jugo, Van Meter, Haman.
Sweyn, Hess, Viz, Fawful and Dark Bowser.
Abstaining on Diz.
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me BlaineQuote suggestion ?
Alex Verus: I don't understand you. Why do you do this?
Vihaela: Why not? I decide how I live. Not the Council. Not other mages. Just me. I can do whatever I like, and this... is what I like.
Got some CM quotes that I personally think hit the mark, here they are:
Edited by Michealthehero21 on Aug 9th 2023 at 3:58:36 AM
Back with probably the last Sonic Archie CM candidate. After much thought and looking through any potential concerns I feel he could qualify so let us begin.
What is the Work?
Sonic The Hedgehog is a comic book series based off the hit game series and published by Archie Comics. On the planet Mobius Dr Eggman overthrows the Kingdom of Acorn and conquered most of the world. The only resistance is the Freedom Fighters of Knothole mainly led by Sally Acorn and Sonic The Hedgehog.
Who is Scourge The Hedgehog and what has he done?
Scourge The Hedgehog, formerly known as Anti-Sonic is an alternate reality version of Sonic from the alternate world known as Anti Mobius, later changed to be called Moebius.
Anti Sonic’s father Anti-Jules would establish a time of Great Peace on the planet. However 10 years later enter a state of decline which gave Anti-Sonic the chance to overthrow his dad (and kill him too), throw the Anti-King Acorm in the and throw the world into Zone of Silence and along side the Anti Freedom Fighters ruled over Mobotroplis.
Later on he wound have a run in with Sonic who ended up in his dimension by mistake causing the two to fight with Sonic beating his evil counterpart. Later he would assist Robo Robotnik and retrieve for him the Giant Borg, a super weapon that would be used to conquer the multiverse which Anti-Sonic was fine with as long as all the other alternative versions of Sonic died as well. Later he would assist a different Robot Robotnik(this one being the one that would end up Becoming Dr Eggman) by retrieving the destroyed pieces of the Giant Borg for him in the hopes by assisting with his conquest he would gain power. Unfortunately he ended up giving it to the wrong Robotnik(that being the Sonic Underground one) and ended up being imprisoned in the No Zome dimension by Zonic, another version of Sonic
Later he would knock out both Sonic and Antione and have him and Anti Antione take their places in the hopes to sabotage their lives. He would make moves on all the girls on Knothole including Bunnie who he took a “nap” with (not commenting on this any further). Eventually he was beaten by the returning Sonic but then would later make a alliance with Rouge the Bat and team up to steal the Master Emerald from Locke, Knuckles father, on both Sonic’s birthday no less. This encounter would end with Anti-Sonic trying to go super using the Emerald only to get scarred with a chaos punch from Locke, which would cause him to mutate due to the chaos energy, turning him green and making him more powerful.
He would abandon the name Anti-Sonic and call himself Scourge from that point onward. After beating and nearly killing Locke and escaping from Sonic and Shadow Scourge would be saved by and enter the employ of Dr Finitevus. Later he would end up seducing Fiona Fox, a girl he made moves on while previously disguised as Sonic and Sonic’s current girlfriend, to the dark side. He admits he did this party to mess with Sonic but also because he found her turning evil “hot” during this fight with Sonic he would become aware of the fact that despite being called Scourge he was still an offshoot of Sonic and start plotting of ways to become superior to his good counterpart.
Scourge along with the Destructix would assist Finitevus in his scheme to use Enerjak to destroy the world although only Scourge would be aware of the World destroying nature of the plan. Feeling that things would get dangerous for him he super charged a warp ring to head back with Fiona to his home dimension. He would then proceed to conquer his entire planet and rename it Moebius. He would then turn the Anti Freedom Fighters into the Suppression Squad forcing them to take on new appearances and names some being drastic as cutting out Patchrs eye to make him different from Antione. He would even leave the version on Bunnie for dead due to her devolving a disease that paralyzed her from the waist down.
He would then invade Sonic’s world and begin his conquest of it by taking over Freedom HQ and attempting to destroy New Mobotroplis. He would also attempt to turn Sonic to dark side claiming they could conquer the multiverse together with their combined strength( which Sonic of course rejects). After Sonic invaded Scourges home dimension a battle would break out between multiple parties including Metal Sonic, Silver, Shadow, Rosy the Rascal, and even Scourge’s Ken squad betraying him due to his abuse even Fiona deciding to bail on him. Scourge outnumbered would use the Anarchy Beryl stashed on his throne room to turn into Super Scourge and utterly decimate his opponents. He would then have Sonic in the run and reveal he is no longer interested in ruling both of the worlds and instead plan on destroying them and then going on a multiversal planet killing spree, intending on destroying them until he finds a world that will respect him. He would beat defeated however due to Sonic tricking him into depowering himself by mocking him causing Sonic to knock out the defeated Scourge.
Sonic would then take Scourge to the Zone cops to be thrown in the No Zomr dimension but Scourge would break free and try to destroy the No Zome dimension as revenge for his previous imprisonment before heading back to destroy Sonic’s world but was stopped by Sonic and Zonic and thrown in the jail in the No Zone. Scourge would later escape prison alongside Fiona and the Destructix and begin his plans to get his revenge on both worlds, which will never happen because he got retconned out of existence after that.
Mitigating factors
Two minor things before getting to the important poiints. Scourge does not have agency issues, just because he is evil Sonic doesn’t mean he lacks understanding of morals or is he incapable of choosing to be good. Heck the evil version of Bunnie turns over a new leaf so this is definitely not the case. Another point of worth is that while he was Anti-Sonic he was treated as more of a joke and a nuisance, however when he becomes Scourge this completely vanishes and he is no longer a joke and is a very real threat from that point onward so he is taken seriously enough.
Now onto the 3 important points which are misconceptions which are the reason he probably has been proposed before so shall adress them.
“Scourge show’s standards against Flying Frog due to his sadism and backstory”
Yeah no, Scourge is shown to me more annoyed that this crazy person is getting up in his face. And showing standards would be hypocritical as not only has Scourge been shown to be way worse then Flying Frog and a sadist himself( literally said beforehand how much he enjoyed hurting people and needs to be stopped by his own men due to him wasting time trying to kill a guard for fun) but later during the prison escape he doesn’t mind Flying Frog’s sadism in fact he seems to enjoy it. So this does not hold up.
“Scourge loves Fiona” Scourge interest in Fiona is shown to be based of him liking how bad she ends up being, not care for her as a person. This is shown due to him being incredibly rude to her on multiple occasions even when she is trying to help, has no problem trying to destroy the planet she is on with no regard for his safety, and finally during the prison arc he immediately tries to break ties with her the second he feel that associating with her will endanger himself and even when he does end up working with her he is still ungrateful and after breaking out refused to help her with her job for Finitevus and tells her that she and the rest of the gang follow him now. So this is not genuine care. Even Ian Flynn has gone on record to say that Scourge wouldn’t hesitate to get rid of her if it meant saving himself which further supports this.
“Scourge feel remorse for killing his dad which is why he ran away crying from Jules” Yeah no, dude literally brags to Jules about his dad’s death as a way to scare him, the real reason he ran away crying was when Jules stood up to him, called him a coward for trying to kill Sonic during the middle of the night, and pointing out how angry Sonic would be if Scourge killed Sonic’s dad. I have heard so interpretations that him crying is him being affected by Jules care for his son which is why he didn’t kill him, however given that he was willingly to destroy the entire planet later this is not the case and it seems more likely he was crying due to being called out for his cowardice.
Heinous Standard
Well given that he assisted two different versions of Robo Robotnik for a multiversal takeover, treats his teammates like utter garbage even mutilating one of them, and planned on going on a multiversal killing spree I think that puts him above most of the villains in Archie. The only exceptions being Eggman and Mogul who aren’t fair comparisons due to having godlike resources and the ability to shape reality to their liking. So I say Scourge more then stands out
Verdict?
A yes in my opinion but it is up to you all.
Edited by YorkobeShounen on Aug 9th 2023 at 7:04:42 AM

Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Aug 8th 2023 at 4:55:58 AM