Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
This franchise sort of made jumping the shark into an art form. They dropped from anything resembling realism around the 5th game(Where we had the child-killing robot slaves William built in the 80s that he keeps in his laboratory). That is part of why I love it.
Nay on Hess.
Edited by Snoketrope on Aug 8th 2023 at 2:35:49 AM
Bow to the PrototypeSo the The Open House candidate was a bust. I had the feeling, but it was good to get him out of the way, so let's move on to a more concrete Serial Killer.
What is the work?
We are diving into the world of CSI: Miami, specifically Episode 18 of Season 9 "About Face". In this episode, Natalia is abducted by a convicted murderer, but claims he is innocent. He is telling the truth, and this is the man who framed him.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
Greg Calomar is a Serial Killer and Serial Rapist with a nasty MO. Having jars upon jars of ultrasound wand gel, along with an ultrasound wand, Greg would attack prostitutes, crippling them by breaking their necks, he would then violate them with the gel-coated ultrasound wand until they die from the trauma. Killing Helen Sherman, Greg framed Patrick Clarkson for the murder, going as far to testify against him so Patrick would be locked up for four years while Greg continued his murder spree.
Patrick breaks out of prison at the worst possible time, as Greg rapes and murders another woman close to the time of his escape, leading police to believe he committed the murder. Thankfully, with the help of the CSI Miami team, they are able to trace the gel and the wand back to Greg, who remorselessly admits his crimes, showing disgust toward the women he murdered and assisting he "purified" them.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
No and no. Greg is considered a "House Cleaner"-type Serial Killer, but he is not well into ones simply a misogynistic bastard who framed an innocent man just so he could keep on killing.
Are they bad enough?
Holy. Shit. This guys might have one of the Cruel and Unusual Death MO in the entire franchise. We don't have an accurate number of kills, but we have two confirmed victims with one attempted, which I believe is enough for a pattern.
Final verdict?
First confident yes from me in a whileKinda depends on how a series might define “murder,” though. Truth be told, I long figured IBO’s Jasley Donomikols would be more suitable.
Anyway, I wrapped up reading Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: The Last Ronin - The Lost Years, and I would like to have my own proposal from that series (my first overall) out next Wednesday, so I just wanted to give you all the heads up for that.
Speaking of TMNT, though, has anyone offered to cover Mutant Mayhem, which was released last Wednesday? Just wondering.
Eleanor. Ah Sequel Escalation, I can never decide if I love it or not.
Greg.
Edited by Beast on Aug 8th 2023 at 6:11:44 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."- Inkopolis Chaos (Inkopolis Chaos 2 and A Burden to Bear): Magentark Clover is the older brother of Cyalux, who causes many of the events in the story despite being long dead. Portrayed as a violent xenophobe, Magentark gaslit his younger brother and fed him lies about Octolings to get him to hate them as well. Magentark stole a new weapon, framing an innocent teenage Octoling Natalie for it and causing her to be on the run and homeless, and attempted to murder as many Octolings as possible, unwilling to have them live on the surface. Despite being killed by Ruby in self defense, his gaslighting turned Cyalux into a monster and formed the Terrorist group Octobusters, hell bent on separating Inklings and Octolings permanently.
Obsidian and Spiker are in all three parts, right? So Magentark goes at the end?
Also, is it "Octolings Burden" or "A Burden to Bear"?
EDIT: Okay, Natalie's in all 3 parts, Spiker's in parts 1 and 3.
Also, for Greg, even if we don't get a concrete body count, is it implied he has more victims?
Edited by ACW on Aug 8th 2023 at 9:47:09 AM
Khognor Writeup
Knognor the god of the undead angry that Fendhar made a world he saw without strength and magic tricked the young farm boy Radhiel into becoming his disciple and possessed. Using his new found body he blocked Fendhar from the earth and attacked the 100 kingdoms of the world with his undead army leaving many innocents dead in his path to take over the world while leaving it dead. Seeing Auron as having no drive to face him he with glee forces Auron to watch as his friend Melaha is slowly tortured to death, and forces him to fight his adoptive father as a undead. When done with using Radhiel's body he has Auron stab the boy killing him and when called out by Auron why he had the boy who trusted him killed he remorselessly describes as a foolish tool Radhiel just to use and when Auron tries to attack him and fails he grabs Auron and painfully squeezes him to death while mockingly telling him that his screams might defeat him. A cruel sadistic god who killed almost everyone in the world with glee to take it over when it wasn't the way he wanted it to be, Knognor proves he only cares about himself.
I had this person in my mind for a while and looking at her closely mulling about it, I do think she's a really good fit despite what was the said in the game's other Complete Monster write-up, even more when we consider the game's remake. Likely the last major candidate from Wild ARMs 1, unless there's one in the spin-off XF or mobile game, we have one of the Big Bad of the game, Mother.
The setting:
Wild ARMs 1 is the first game of the Wild ARMS series, dating back in the Playstation 1 and later remade for the Playstation 2. Being the introduction of the series, the first game's story is simple, three souls from different walks of life are tied together by destiny to stop the invasions of the demons who seek to destroy humanity, journeying the Wild West like continent to find out the secrets of their worlds and the means to defeat the demons. Who I want to talk about is the leader of the Demons, initially, and the person most enthusiatic in playing her role in killing human kind, Mother.
Who is Mother and her actions?
I'm mainly talking the version from the remake of the game Wild ARMS: Code F.
Mother is the leader of the demons, an nihilistic entity who travelled around the universe to destroy planets to fulfill her self-appointed role of destructor of the world. Coming to the planet of Filgaia after destroying the metal demon's world and recruiting some of their best warriors as soldiers to her cause, Mother intends to reign destruction upon Filgaia. Allowing her servants to do whatever they had as long as it's in service to her cause, she's complicit to some of the worst acts that happened in game like Alhezad's experiments, while giving free reign to her armies to destroy countless kingdoms and slaughter thousands to further her own goals. Mainly behind in the background while her Quarter Knights take center stage, Mother for the most part partains orders, though she herself has shown to make decisions that goes against the other Knights such as inducting Boomerang to the group to replace Berserker casually disregarding that her new servant killed her former one. The turning point was when Mother revealed in a height of arrogance she was the one destroyed the demon's world, Hiades, and had no plans into turning Filgalia into their new home, only destroying it before consuming the Quarter Knights aside from one and vogage in the outer reaches of space for the next planet to eat.
This angered the Metal Demons who ended up turning on Mother, deceiving the heroes into killing her for them while Mother can't comprehend her own servants defying her. Seemingly have died, Mother's spirit still lives and when Ziekfried accidentally ends up to where her body was, Mother use this chance to possess Ziekfried to continue her mission. Under the guise of Ziekfried, Mother work with Alhazad in readying a weapon for her to finish the world, using the possess Elmina as the catalyst and raising disasters in the world had it not been stopped in the final moments by Jack.
With everything ready to destroy the world, Mother heads into space to destroy Filgalia, which she succeeded in doing during the final battle but it was reverse by Rudy. Her plans in shambles, Mother battles the party in a final fight for the fate of the planet, where Mother loses putting an end to the nihilistic world destroyer.
How bad is she?
A planet genocide monster, Mother is up there among the very worst when it comes to bodycount in not just this game but the entire series, comfirmed to have destroyed the Metal Demon's planet before the game's events, likely done it to other planets, and attempts to do the same in this game which we have a clearer picture in the remake with a caphophany of catastrophic natural disaster like tornadoes and floods destroying the planet. She derives pleasure from it, and whether it's her nature or not, Mother as the game ends is clearly more aware of morality and she just plainly doesn't care, she wants to just destroy, seeing it as her purpose.
Reedemable qualities:
I believe she doesn't have any. I know the write-up we have for Alhazad mentions Mother has Blue-and-Orange Morality, but I disagree when she takes great pride on the suffering and pain she cause. It might be true it's Playstation version of the game, but the Playstation 2 remake Code F does not. While at the start before her first defeat it might make sense since she couldn't comprehend her own warriors hating her and then betraying her for planning to destroy Filgalia instead of subjugating it like they thought and that she destroyed their original home. When she's back by taking over Ziekfried's body halfway through the game, she embraces the evil label given to her, no longer ignorant of how bad her action was despite her self-proclaim role. With that she firmly place in the actual evil category.
'''Final Verdict:
I say despite the other write-up made by the other person, Mother is viable for this trope and bluntly that needs a rewrite. Especially with the presentation different the remake has to show Mother is self-aware of her actions and knows it's genuinely malicious and she still does it now out of spite and pride of her own label, she's definitely worth saying yes.
Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle

You see this everyday with things like Undertale and MLP fanfics. Does not suprise me by a bit.