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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

Mr-ex777 Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#22376: Aug 6th 2023 at 10:19:45 AM

[up] See, this is what happens if you have a work with an incredibly high heinous standard like Warhammer 40k. At points like these, nothing but sheer body counts will matter and the list of CMs might as well as look like a guy who burnt and killed trillions in the most viscerally horrible way possible and another who burnt and killed billions in the most viscerally horrible way possible.

Here, it's essentially one slaver killing and torturing people by the high dozens to hundreds and another who kills around the same amount of people. We need a confirmation on Blade and Schnee's bodycount, but the rest should be keeps. Jax Asturias and the rapist is an easy stay regardless, though.


[tup] Grodd

Edited by Mr-ex777 on Aug 7th 2023 at 1:22:21 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#22377: Aug 6th 2023 at 10:23:23 AM

I guess I'll give a yes to the Doctor if the narrative treats it as cowardice.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#22378: Aug 6th 2023 at 10:24:27 AM

Give me like ten minutes and I can provide a compare and contrast for the War of Remnant stuff

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#22380: Aug 6th 2023 at 10:36:43 AM

I've got a quick EP myself. Today's movie is nothing sophisticated; it's a 45 minute J-Sploitation film called Hard Revenge Milly about a woman named Milly and her, er, hard revenge.

Let's talk about the guy she wants revenge on.

    What has Jack done? 
  • Leader of a group of gangsters known as the "Jack Brothers" (yes, he's a very humble man) the day-to-day activities of Jack and his gangsters include everything from dealing crack to raping random women. Two years before the present day, Jack and his gangsters went on a killing spree, targeting entire families at a time. One of these families to be our title character's—Milly, her husband, and their infant child.
  • Jack proceeded to force Milly to watch as he first butchered her husband, then lit her baby on fire and burned it alive and wailing. All the while, Jack spent hours torturing Milly with a knife, slicing pieces off of her bit-by-bit. Jack left Milly for dead, sure he'd tortured her to death, but Milly held on through sheer Heroic Willpower. Jack carved out enough of Milly's flesh to the point most of her body beneath the neck is cybernetic in the present day.
  • The sequel further establishes that Jack's killing spree became so infamous among the criminal underworld that it started inspiring copycats; he's singlehandedly responsible for inspiring a whole wave of new murders that followed afterward.
  • In the present day, Milly goes on a Roaring Rampage of Revenge after having converted her entire body into a killing machine, gruesomely picking off his gangsters one after another. Jack doesn't recognize Milly until he sees her up close. After he gets the upper hand in the final battle, Jack tells her he's going to spend his time torturing her to death again and this time finish the job. When Milly asks him why he killed her family, he gives her this charming response:
    "The same reason we breathe. You don't even notice. You just suck air. We had no reason to kill your family. You happened to be there, when we felt like killing somebody."
  • After hearing this, Milly...stabs him in the head with a knife, shoots him through the torso with one of her shotgun kneecaps, then uses her cybernetic arms to cut him apart into ground minced meat. Which she then promptly roasts to medium-rare and feeds to a small dog.
  • Only in Japan, folks.
    Heinous standard? 
  • Jack's way over the line. There's a sequel (which is actually—if barely—feature-length) but the villains there are a pair of bickering brothers who want to avenge Jack's death at Milly's hands. Aside from one casual murder they commit, none of them do anything close to as sadistic as what Jack is doing.
    Redeeming qualities? 
  • Nothing. I don't expect much of these from a guy who sets a baby on fire.

Edited by Scraggle on Aug 6th 2023 at 11:37:13 AM

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#22382: Aug 6th 2023 at 10:40:30 AM

[tup] Jack, great work Scrags!

Fun little factoid, on the DVD’s Behind the Scenes, the director admitted to making Jack as unlikeable as possible, and how he shows no care for even the gruesome deaths of his mates.

It's Spooky Month!
BillyPeepers92 Since: Jun, 2021
ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Ultimate Lifeform
#22384: Aug 6th 2023 at 10:43:43 AM

Disgusted [tup] to Jack. Wow that story screams tasteless edgelord. Are all so called J-Sploitation films like that?

"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#22386: Aug 6th 2023 at 10:46:17 AM

How bad are the other members of Jack's gang? Do they just go along with everything their boss does or are they equally sadistic?

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#22388: Aug 6th 2023 at 10:48:04 AM

@NTG: Pretty much all of them are going along with what Jack says. They're giddy sadists themselves, but Jack is the unquestionable authority directing them.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#22389: Aug 6th 2023 at 10:49:56 AM

Jack sounds like a classic keeper!

Okay, here's the War of Remnant guys in what I believe to be most-to-least heinous

    Compare and contrast 

  • Arthur Watts - killed his own family, turned someone into a serial killer, plans a massacre of the Atlesian Knight unveiling, is crucial to the Fall of Vale (which threatens millions of lives), kills Jacques' political opponents to secure his power, and is currently on his way to Vacuo with intent to completely destroy it
  • Damian Void - serial torturer who created the White Fang, attempts to wipe out everyone in Vale twice, goes on a random killing spree when the first attempt fails, keeps hostages in his lair to torture for fun.
  • Wendigo - a member of Salem's cabal who has razed villages across the countryside and forces his victims to eat their families
  • Adam Taurus - a member of the White Fang who has killed hundreds of people personally, including deliberately murdering Winter's wife and baby because she called him a coward, and tries to blow up Haven and his entire squad out of spite when the plan to destroy Haven fails
  • Jacques Schnee - a slaver with countless victims whose reckless acts have led to countless deaths in his mines and who is even responsible for terrorist attacks.
  • Jax Asturias - provides the slaves for Jacques' mines, orders at least 5,000 people murdered in razed villages, and intends to destroy Atlas, which would kill millions
  • Carter Pillar - the middle step between Jax and Jacques, he tortures half of the slaves he gets until they become mindless drones and then just tortures and murders the other half. He also regularly does things like killing the families of his enemies
  • Miranda Spot - willingly carries out Jax's orders to kill thousands on top of raping her sons and husband
  • Ronald Atwood - just read the entry, I'm not writing that shit out again
  • Simon Blade - a fuck-all police officer who participates in several massacres of his own and who assassinates Schnee's political rivals and their families, and is now working with him to spread pain and misery throughout Atlas

Okay, here's my logic for all of them - I'm willing to fight for Watts, Void, Wendigo, Jacques, Adam, Jax, and Atwood, I'm ambivalent towards Carter and Miranda, and if someone has to go then it's Blade, but here's the logic for keeping all of them

    Reasons 

  • Watts - highest body count because of his actions, both attempted and succeeded, bar none, but he's a member of Salem's cabal with a huge amount of technological advantage, meaning he's the top tier antagonist in both crimes and resources.
  • Damien - on top of being responsible for terrorist attacks and attempting to wipe out everyone in Vale twice, the latter of which literally has his forces going building by building killing everyone in sight, he's a serial torturer who engages in it several times throughout the fic
  • Wendigo - what he lacks in Watts' high body count he makes up for in sheer disgust factor and sadism.
  • Adam - highest personal body count (as in people he directly orders killed or killed himself - Watts' high bodycount comes from his role in the fall of Vale) including deliberate infanticide and massacring his own forces out of spite, and what he does to Blake cements him in this bar none (he rapes her with a gun)
  • Jacques - slaver with countless victims and responsible for terrorist attacks and assassinations. For the first big antagonist not connected to Salem at all, he sets the bar high.
  • Jax - on top of all his canon shit, he's directly responsible for 5,000 deaths and intends to destroy an entire Kingdom just so he can take control, and he murders his own sister out of spite.
  • Pillar - he's directly responsible for Jacques having such a high slave count and he brutally tortures and murders anyone he doesn't have a need for, on top of murdering families of his enemies
  • Miranda - she willingly carries out Jax's orders on top of the unique crime of raping her own children and spouse
  • Atwood - again, read his entry, he's not going anywhere
  • Blade - he's the least heinous, but he's responsible for several massacres and horrific assassinations while literally just being a fuck-all police officer. If anyone goes it's him but I think there's an argument to let him stay.

I've decided against one of the other ones I had in mind but the other one I intend to get to is indeed a god-tier villain who is in no way comparable to anyone here.

I made my stances on all of them clear up top so here's what we've got. Make of it all what you will.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Aug 6th 2023 at 1:51:33 PM

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#22390: Aug 6th 2023 at 10:59:16 AM

I think I am Okay keeping them all. Carter is still nasty midle step between Jax and Jacquest and he is just a crime boss with nasty modus operady, while Miranda is incestous pedophile who murders thousands. Blade I can see because he is just a police officer, if anything because of his role in Jacquest taking control of the Atlas.

Edited by EmperorGeode on Aug 6th 2023 at 10:59:51 AM

NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#22391: Aug 6th 2023 at 10:59:59 AM

@STARCRUSHER99: Okay that helps a lot but I still need some numbers. I know nothing about the setting of Ruby. So how many people do each of them kill/attempt to kill? How much people do live in the Vale?

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#22393: Aug 6th 2023 at 11:10:48 AM

[tup] for Jack. If he's the ringleader he's responsible for the gang's actions.

Not sure about the Ruby Fanfic. The heinous standard is messed up and there are so many horrible people who often comitt similar crimes. Not suggesting any cuts by switching to Abstain for Wendigo and probably not going to vote for any future candidate from that story. Because at this point I’ve no idea whats bad enough anymore.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#22394: Aug 6th 2023 at 11:18:43 AM

[tup]jack

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#22395: Aug 6th 2023 at 11:23:42 AM

Assuming we see flashbacks (I'm less inclined to allow leeway for these types of films, yes to Jack.

Does he appear at all in the sequel.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#22396: Aug 6th 2023 at 11:46:54 AM

[up] Nope. Only in a dream sequence.

It's Spooky Month!
TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#22397: Aug 6th 2023 at 11:47:41 AM

[tup] Jack

Once Upon A Time.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#22398: Aug 6th 2023 at 11:48:55 AM

[up][up]Though the fact that he inspired copycats in the sequel should probably be mentioned (if only so that makes it easier to file under films instead of Short Films at Other Media).

FlowerPicking Since: Feb, 2023 Relationship Status: A heart full of love

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