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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#22076: Aug 3rd 2023 at 12:53:49 PM

I can promise, the Chancellor doesn't keep. The whole point of the episode is he is

A. Not ultimately in charge of the regime

B. Is simply another, replaceable and expendable cog in the machine. Completely interchangeable from his successor the moment he shows weakness.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#22077: Aug 3rd 2023 at 12:59:21 PM

Pending stuff:


Also, I don't think the Hateful Star got enough votes?

MermaidEyes15 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
#22078: Aug 3rd 2023 at 1:02:28 PM

[up] [up]okay that makes sense

Also, When it comes to Appolonia, it seems like the issue was heinous standard, which I am fine with, although I think the sheer depravity she committed againts a preteen girl, which is pretty explicitly detailed, would’ve made her count.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#22079: Aug 3rd 2023 at 1:34:37 PM

[tup]astegal.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#22081: Aug 3rd 2023 at 1:55:06 PM

[tup] to John Royce and General Astegal.

TheGrayFox ....Phenomenal from A Lovecraftian fishing village Since: Sep, 2011
....Phenomenal
#22082: Aug 3rd 2023 at 2:18:17 PM

[tup] for Astegal.

There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#22083: Aug 3rd 2023 at 2:20:56 PM

Did we ever decide how we treat Kung Fu Panda shows with each other regarding heinousness since continuity beetwen them is super loose? Veruca smashes standard either with her end goal, so just wondering
I would think they need to compare to at least the films since the shows (so Shen and Kai) are spun off from them (which kee pa, the white bone demon and Jindiao all do). But I don't think theirs a need to compare between shows. As you said. The continuity between them is loose to say the least.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#22084: Aug 3rd 2023 at 2:31:51 PM

[tup] Astegal

@ACW Yeah not sure if you specifically remember but I did chat with you about Expendables 4 in P Ms since I knew you had interest in it before the thread shutdowns.

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#22086: Aug 3rd 2023 at 2:53:00 PM

  • Mirai Robo Daltanious: The Commander of the Zaar Reconnaissance Fleet is Earth’s first taste of the Zaar Interstellar Empire’ brutality. He leads his fleet into a bloody campaign of conquest across Japan which orphans Kento and his friends. The Commander plans to continue razing Earth’s cities and destroying any military resistance that gets in his way until the whole planet submits to the Zaar Empire. When newly awoken, Daltanious destroys one of his giant robots and the Commander mobilises his entire fleet to destroy Doctor Earl’s base and personally destroy Daltanonius.

MermaidEyes15 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
#22087: Aug 3rd 2023 at 3:33:46 PM

[tup] Astegal.

Surprisingly, I got tipped by a user in P Ms about a potential The Twilight Zone candidate and yeah I think this guy might have a chance, from a lesser known episode.

What’s The Work?

The Twilight Zone (1959) is the first installment of The Twilight Zone franchise, an episodic anthology series about supernatural events happening to ordinary people. The episode of today is “Black Leather Jackets” which tells three aliens hiding as Bikers who have one mission: exterminate earth.

Who’s The Alien Leader?

The Unnamed Alien Leader is the leader of the advance civilization, only seen as a Eye on the TV screen, who sends thousands of agents across the country, including the three bikers.. Seeing humanity as simply a violent and barbaric race, he sends a the agents under the disguise to release bacteria into the water supplies, which will kill off all of humanity and domesticated animals in days. During this time the youngest biker, Scott, falls in love with the human Ellen and thinks Humanity isn’t all evil, and attempts to sway the opinion of the Leader. However, the leader watched Scott all this time and simply deems Scott a traitor to his own kind, and doesn’t care over his objections and refuses to stop the extermination. When Scott attempts to convince Ellen the truth, a Deputy that is an alien in disguise hypnotizes Scott and sends him off to be “institutionalized” leading Humanity unaware of their upcoming genocide and invasion.

Portrait of an American family on the eve of invasion from outer space. Of course, we know it's merely fiction... and yet, think twice when you drink your next glass of water. Find out if it's from your local reservoir, or possibly it came direct to you from the Twilight Zone.

Mitigating Factors?

Not really, from the scenes we have of him. Alien Overlord is simply portrayed as a Fantastic Racism who justify the genocide of humans and animals due to thinking humans are simply evil inheritaly, which is portrayed as a weak excuse to justify their colonization. When seeing Scott fall in love with a human, The Alien deems him as worthless for falling in love and when Scott attempts to prove the fact humans aren’t all bad, The Leader simply bristles and deems him a traitor for defying their orders.

Heinous Standard?

Well, I guess we have to compare him to Ramos Clemente, who Held mass executions around the clock, Hitler himself who convinced a Neo-Nazi to be more violent in attempt to hold the next Reich, the sadistic torturing SS officer Lutze who’s responsible for almost a million deaths ect. but even then? The Alien Overlord is explicitly ordering the mass genocide of all humanity and domestic animals, having waves of Bactria released which will take affect in days, and with no one to stop them anymore, it’s made clear by the end that he will very much succeed in the extermination. So yeah, Straight up Mass Genocide. Can’t get more heinous than that.

Verdict?

Gonna say yeah to him tbh.

Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Aug 3rd 2023 at 6:34:34 AM

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#22090: Aug 3rd 2023 at 3:53:42 PM

Can't say I see it for him, myself. Nothing in the episode really indicates he's the sole leader of the aliens or anything but this specific trio's personal liaison; nothing about him or the aliens' method of referring to him indicates he's the architect of the scheme or even has more of a responsibility for it than any other member of his race, especially when he consistently refers to "we" and "our race's" plans without taking personal responsibility.

I just don't think his status as a "leader" is made clear enough in the episode itself, he just feels like another member of an entire race out to destroy humanity because of nebulous need for more resources. Not to mention that there are several other episodes with aliens out to decimate/eat/enslave humankind which makes this one's ability to stand-out all the more questionable.

Edited by Ravok on Aug 3rd 2023 at 3:53:48 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#22091: Aug 3rd 2023 at 3:56:07 PM

I think on consideration I'm kinda okay with him? Checkin my Twilight Zone companion, he is referred to as the leader for the script

MermaidEyes15 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
#22092: Aug 3rd 2023 at 4:00:23 PM

[up][up] The epsiode makes it pretty clear with the aliens answering to him and Scott outright saying he has the power to stop things so it’s made pretty clear to me this guy is the leader

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#22093: Aug 3rd 2023 at 4:01:45 PM

Even then is he really bad enough, though? We had this whole discussion about anthology shows still having a general baseline and he's nowhere near the only "alien who wants to fuck up mankind" in the show. Especially compared to those like the villains of "The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street" who do it in a far worse way, or "To Serve Man" who kidnap countless people to eat, or "Will the Real Martian Please Stand Up" which has two separate races planning nefarious things for Earth...

Edited by Ravok on Aug 3rd 2023 at 4:02:00 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#22094: Aug 3rd 2023 at 4:03:46 PM

Honestly more inclined to follow Ravok's reasoning here. I'm also saying no.

MermaidEyes15 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
#22095: Aug 3rd 2023 at 4:06:17 PM

[up][up] I mean, frankly from the episodes I’ve seen a lot of their plans are simple conquering, with this version explicitly planning and going ahead with the genocide of humanity

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#22097: Aug 3rd 2023 at 4:07:20 PM

The aliens of "To Serve Man" explicitly wish to devour the entire race.

MermaidEyes15 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
#22098: Aug 3rd 2023 at 4:11:24 PM

Fair although this guy still goes ahead to exterminate all of them from posioning their water supplies, and given we are given the actual leader here who is giving t order and we know that d responsible as far as the story tells makes me more confident than the other alien races

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#22099: Aug 3rd 2023 at 4:12:49 PM

Yeah, "To Serve Man"'s aliens are out to eat all of mankind; "Maple Street"'s explicitly spell out they're going to move from neighborhood to neighborhood driving humans into slaughtering each other; "Will the Real Martian" has both Mars and Venus planning to invade and "colonize" earth in decidedly threatening plans. These aliens in "Black Leather Jackets" just aren't unique enough for me with just a barebones "poison the water" plan.

Edited by Ravok on Aug 3rd 2023 at 4:13:35 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
MermaidEyes15 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
#22100: Aug 3rd 2023 at 4:15:47 PM

Again, the fact we see the actual leader of the group here apart from simple messengers doing their jobs help me honestly say it helps more since we have a face (or eye) to the crimes


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