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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#21626: Jul 28th 2023 at 1:17:25 PM

Oh. Then yeah, if there is an overall standard, he'd be beaten out.

OldMcBrother He/They from Earth Since: Jul, 2021
He/They
#21627: Jul 28th 2023 at 1:22:17 PM

Yes to the Witch... but fucking hell, man.

TheGrayFox ....Phenomenal from A Lovecraftian fishing village Since: Sep, 2011
....Phenomenal
#21628: Jul 28th 2023 at 1:23:02 PM

[tup] for the Witch. (Wheee shock-value-horror, my favorite)

[tdown] for the abusive husband.

There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
Demiuruji Since: Jul, 2023
#21629: Jul 28th 2023 at 1:25:09 PM

On the Administrivia page on Complete Monster it says that, despite being an atology, the level of scrutiny (the page's words, not mine) depends on how connected the anthology works are, and Leave Luanne is never even hinted at being in the same universe as the Ballad of Sarah Berry.

Edited by Demiuruji on Jul 28th 2023 at 1:25:56 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#21630: Jul 28th 2023 at 1:26:57 PM

Basically, the work is understood to have a general standard in terms of an anthology.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#21631: Jul 28th 2023 at 1:32:09 PM

[up][up] But there's still a general level of scrutiny for anthologies regardless of how unconnected they are, and by that standard I don't think the bastard holds up to Sarah either - even with a complete disconnect, there's still a consistent standard there because it's the same work, and he doesn't match even the lowest possible measurement of heinousness.

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#21632: Jul 28th 2023 at 1:53:48 PM

[tup] to The Witch.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like nobody reserved the Atom Eve special for Invincible, so if that's cool with everyone, I'll reserve that.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#21633: Jul 28th 2023 at 2:02:22 PM

[up] I think Mediawatcher said he was going to reserve that (you can talk to him about that if you want)

Edited by G-Editor on Jul 28th 2023 at 5:02:49 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#21634: Jul 28th 2023 at 2:23:16 PM

[up] Understood. I searched "Atom Eve Special" and couldn't find anything, so I wasn't sure, lol. Thanks for letting me know!

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#21635: Jul 28th 2023 at 2:25:21 PM

Here’s the Man. I also decided to give KeyFace a slight trim up.

  • Insidious
    • Chapter 3: “The Man Who Can't Breathe” is a particularly cruel spirit, obsessed with making others join him in death. He would torment vulnerable people into killing themselves, at which point he'd keep their souls as "pets" in the Further, where they rot in further misery. Having collected at least eight victims, he targets the depressed teenager Quinn, luring her into getting hit by a car and hospitalizing her. Relentlessly attacking Quinn, causing her further injuries and taking pieces of her soul, he eventually possesses Quinn into battering those trying to help her, telling her father that he's next. When Elise venture into the Further to rescue Quinn, the Man takes the form of her deceased husband, Jack, and attempts to emotionally manipulate her into killing herself.
    • The Last Key: KeyFace, aka the Key Bearer or the Man with the Keys, is a monstrous spirit trying to open the gates of the Further. Tricking a young Elise into releasing him, he murders her mother, before attaching himself to her abusive father, Gerald. Feeding off their pain and hatred, KeyFace had Gerald kidnap, torture and murder several women. Decades after Gerald's death, KeyFace would haunt their home's new owner into continuing Gerald’s crimes. Forcing Elise's niece Melissa into a coma, he takes her to the Further, where he keeps the souls of his victims imprisoned and tormented continuously. When Elise and her other niece, Imogen, come to Melissa’s rescue, KeyFace tries to coerce Elise into beating Gerald's soul for his past abuse, and feed off her hatred. Failing, he attempts to kill Melissa’s physical body out of spite.

Edited by Beast on Jul 28th 2023 at 2:26:28 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#21636: Jul 28th 2023 at 3:26:51 PM

[tup] Dracos, Crynus, Winter, Bruce, Bowden, Jonathan, Postman, Preacher, Kimmi, Woody, Robotnik, Seddons, Tunstall, Charles, Dormammu, Man, Freeman, Laufey, Tim, Father, Vulgarr, Ego, Ronan, Dimentio, A.D.A.M., Skull, Khad, Zola, Mysterio, Rumlow, Tenebrous, Robert, Gutterbuhg, Haman and Witch

[tdown] Mother, Kappa, Trickster, Necrosword, God, Janet, Rick and Bastard

Switching to [tdown] Wyeth

Any more votes on my Mandarin quote?

Mediamagician Since: Jul, 2023
#21637: Jul 28th 2023 at 3:32:55 PM

I'm back and feeling better. Yes to Gutterbuhg, Haman, and the witch.

Also guys, respectfully can we tone down the "OMG the writers are hacks for making her so edgy and evil" talk when that's kind of the point? I played the games and they really are just loving homages to graphic horror in a way that not everyone will like, and I'm really not a fan of dunking on the work of independent creators, even if it is Art the clown( A villain I don't like btw).

[down][down][down] Fair enough. [lol]

Edited by Mediamagician on Jul 28th 2023 at 4:59:48 AM

TheWrongOne41 The Clown is in town (*he*/she/they) from Somewhere, Mexico Since: May, 2022 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
The Clown is in town (*he*/she/they)
#21638: Jul 28th 2023 at 3:36:55 PM

No disrespect to the creators, it's probably nice, but how the events are plastered on the proposal, i was not the biggest fan, even if it's probably portrayed less explicit in the game itself.

Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice. (also i'm fluid now)
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#21639: Jul 28th 2023 at 4:12:08 PM

We get it, people. The game is gruesome as hell, the effort-post already made that clear enough. No need to keep highlighting the same thing.

[tup] to the Witch

Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#21640: Jul 28th 2023 at 4:54:28 PM

[tup] The Witch

My honest reaction after seeing her EP:

Eh, good enough.
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#21641: Jul 28th 2023 at 5:23:37 PM

[tup] to Red Skull, El Khad, Arnim Zola, Dark Mysterio, Brock Rumlow, Mort Tenebrous, Robert, Sergent Helmut Gutterbuhg, Haman and the Witch (damn that was dark).

MermaidEyes15 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
#21642: Jul 28th 2023 at 8:28:06 PM

Sorry for being late but here’s my EP for Tim:

Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#21643: Jul 28th 2023 at 8:45:19 PM

Bleh. Was working on an effortpost for Asmodeus Poisonteeth from Redwall, but he's outheinoused by other villains — even other snakes — that appear later on in the series. I was contemplating the version from the animated series, but it lacks the scenes from his point of view, the mention of the snake den's walls being inscribed with sigils (showing they're not just monsters but have a culture and language of their own like the other animals do), though if anything it's a bit more macabre than the book since his lair is decorated with the skulls of his victims rather than their pelts and feathers. There is an additional scene where Matthias and Log-a-Log fall into a lower chamber overflowing with countless bones — but as some of the skeletons therein are of other giant adders, presumably Asmodeus' ancestors, there's no telling how many Asmodeus himself contributed to.

Darn.

MermaidEyes15 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
#21644: Jul 28th 2023 at 9:25:58 PM

Alrighty, here’s a Uhh, but of a weird one

What’s The Work?

Ask Jeff and Jack is a comedy web show made by BaptismOnFire. It centers around the titular Creepypasta duo, Jeff the Killer and Eyeless Jack, with special appearance of Ticci Toby, answering Deviantart, Tumblr and You Tube comments. The story is generall satirical and light hearted, usually poking fun about Original Creepypasta Characters, Fangirls of Creepypastas and various other things, but things start to get more serious as things go on, with more backstory going on in the series and lore comes in…before the creator went through a mental health crises and she left You Tube on a mental health break, and years later we don’t get much left.

But we get one guy before the indefinite hiatus of the series and he definitely sets himself apart from the light hearted story of the show.

So to set the stage, according to the lore of the series made by Jeff, there are many universes existing, and many of the versions of The Creepypasta characters can either be completely threatening and actually fully blown killers, or downright laughable parodies, which is what the current universe Jeff, who is revealed to have been from an alternate dimension “higher up in the food chain” is in takes place.

Who is Slenderman?

The Slenderman himself is a pivotal character in the entire story. A mysterious creature, it is stated in the series that while there are multiple versions of characters within the universes, a lot more serious and threatening than others, there has always been one Slenderman, a single one, and that’s him.

The Slenderman is a manipulative entity who seeks to gain proxies in order to gain satisfaction for his power. As said by Jeff, Slenderman causes various tragedies across the universes to multiple different characters, main ones being of Tobin and Jeff. Slenderman explicitly caused the car crash of the various Tobin Rodgers, explicitly confirmed to be from Jeff’s own universe and the Universe the series takes place in, and caused him to kill his father and also influenced Jeff to murder his brother and parents, causing them all to be the killers we see now.

It’s shown that Slender manipulated Toby along with other proxies into fitting his own “cookie cutter proxie mole” attempting to make them believe they are dangerous and out of control, and he’s helping, when in reality he’s morphing their minds and bodies into becoming killers themselves. In the episode where Jeff reveals himself to not being part of their universe, he confirms that Slenderman murdered his universe counterpart of Toby when he rebelled and then murdered Jack in front his very eyes and attempted to murder Jeff. Jeff however, caught Slenderman’s book and dimension hopped the current universe, where he murdered that incarnation of Jeff (who appeared in the first two episodes) and hiding himself to make sure Slenderman doesn’t find and to keep himself as long as possible.

The series (maybe) ended prematurely due to the indefinite hiatus, and the only time we see Slenderman is where he crashes Jeff’s Christmas party when trying to get the whereabouts of his book and Jeff manages to excuse himself to avoid him, but that’s all we need of him, as his influence is made clear that he is never a force to be dealt with.

Mitigating Factors?

While Ask Jeff and Jack is pretty parodyish, Slenderman himself is the epitome of a Vile Villain, Saccharine Show. He is played Completely seriously with no comedic moments and his appearances and crimes are played 100% straight with shown effects, most notably with current universe Toby, and even Jeff, who shows to be something akin to Rick Sanchez, doesn’t underestimate or take Slenderman lightly, even being terrified of him. With that, he only sees the Proxies as a means to an end and will quickly dispatch and we get enough personality through being a skilled soft spoken manipulator.

Heinous Standard?

Clears this easy. He causes events such as Toby’s car crash and his sister’s death and manipulated multiple people through the entire universes to murder people and their loved ones while twisting them into being subvervaint. It’s made worst when it’s confirmed that Slenderman only exists as on entity across all universes, thus he commits all of those crimes. And we see the adverse affects of those actions from Toby as well as Jeff, who shows he deep down is still affected by the death of his version Jack and Toby, keeping their old goggles and Mask as keepsakes.

Verdict?

Gonna say yeah.

Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Jul 28th 2023 at 12:29:37 PM

TBmacho22 Since: Jul, 2021 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#21645: Jul 28th 2023 at 9:29:33 PM

Has anyone ever proposed Mimic the Octopus from Sonic IDW?

SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#21646: Jul 28th 2023 at 9:54:25 PM

[up] No, and pretty sure he’s returning soon so hold off for now. If he gets bad enough I could see him keeping

Get Snuck-Up On.”
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#21647: Jul 28th 2023 at 9:54:38 PM

[tdown] Slender Man, the series is too much of a parody for its own good. Even moments that are supposed to be Played for Drama are quickly ignored in favor of comedy. This is how Jeff responds to Toby discovering the truth about the Slender Man:

"I have a bottle of whisky under the starts if you want it, and if you gonna have a mental breakdown, please do so preferably to a song from mid sixties. I don't wanna have this angsty Linkin-Chemical-Fallout-Park-182 crap."

Toby then proceeds to contemplate his life and drink huge amounts of whisky while California Dreamin' plays on the background.

ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Ultimate Lifeform
#21648: Jul 28th 2023 at 9:55:58 PM

In light of [up] hard [tdown] to Slenderman. The fact that it's a comedy really makes it hard for villains to keep.

"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#21649: Jul 28th 2023 at 9:56:48 PM

[tdown] to the Slendy Bendy Willy Man.

MermaidEyes15 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
#21650: Jul 28th 2023 at 9:58:16 PM

Ack, good point. Another Swing and a miss lol. My bad.


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