Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
Oh boy, 3 PM!
- Anthrax’s Among The Livings’ ‘’A Skeleton In The Closet’’: Todd Bowden is just as vile as in the original novella [[Literature/Different Seasons Apt Pupil.]] Growing obsessed with the holocaust after learning about it, Todd blackmails his fugitive nazi war criminal neighbor Kurt Dussander into detailing his atrocities to him. Initially having nightmares, Todd quickly grows to have “wet dreams” at the thought of the atrocities and begins murdering homeless people at a whim. After Dussander’s crimes are exposed, Todd decides to go out by firing hundreds of rounds into a crowded freeway, gleefully killing dozens.
The album already has a guy so we can add the candidate under him. Also the formatting isn’t working on mobile so ill either edit it when I can use my laptop or someone can do so on the drafts page.
EDIT: I’m sorry I didn’t realize we used Western Time and not Eastern but there’s really no point in removing the post.
Edited by Orangutans on Jul 27th 2023 at 12:10:24 PM
It is Eastern. If it's close enough to the end of the day I just move it to pending. I'm not gonna rules lawyer over a few hours.
Though please add to the Drafts.
EDIT: Though in this case you were on time anyway
(And for those wondering why we use that, it's because that's my timezone, so there ![]()
)
Edited by ACW on Jul 27th 2023 at 3:20:16 PM
- Django Unchained script
: Ace Woody is the overseer of Candyland's slave training pits, subjecting dozens of slaves to horrible Training from Hell and killing any that fail. Introduced executing multiple slaves just because they look weak, Woody forces others to do push-ups constantly and kills whoever gives up first. When his employer Calvin Candie is killed, Woody strings up Django and plans to castrate him as punishment before sending him off to the LeQuint Dickey Mining Company to live the rest of his days in agony.
Edited by Ravok on Jul 27th 2023 at 1:14:33 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!- 12 Years a Slave: Freeman is the host of a large slave auction who represents the worst of the business side of slavery. Selling mass quantities of slaves to the wealthy, children included, Freeman shows how petty he can be when he sells the slave Eliza’s son despite her pleas, then spitefully separates her from her kids. Freeman even plans to prostitute Eliza’s 8-year-old daughter after taking notice of her "beauty."
What’s The Work?
Hallow (fuck I realize that is actually spelled with a O and not an A) is a 2022 mystery romance graphic novel based on Washington Irving’s The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. It is set in the modern era, where Isabela “Izzy” Crane (may or may not be related to Ichabod Crane) moves to Sleepy Hallow, who’s entire personality is based on the infamous Horseman Story, and he befriends and eventually grows in love with Vicky Van Tassel, Sleepy Hallow royalty and descendant of Katrina Van Tassel and Brom Bones. However the two attempt to keep Katrina alive from the Van Tassel curse as they work with the Headless Horseman, a guardian Angel towards the Van Tassel Lineage.
Who is The Villain? What Does He Do?
Mort Tenebrous is the main villain in the story, appearing as a totally not at all suspicious teacher at Sleepy Hallow High School before it’s revealed he is the cause of the Van Tassel Family curse. From what little we get of his past, Tenebrous is actually a spirit that was accidentally released centuries ago in Sleepy Hallow, and was obsessed with power and giving people misery. Interrupting a party during the Anniversary of Brom Bones and Katrina Van Tassel and the Van Tassel annual Harvest Frolic, Mort’s attempts to conquer the town was thwarted and he was laughed out by the Tassel family, to which Tenebrous swore vengeance for humiliating him.
It’s revealed he had mystical powers (ghost guy, remember), and used them and murdered the oldest child of Brom and Van Tassel seasons later. For over the next few centuries, Tenebrous haunted The Van Tassel Family, Murdering the oldest child of every generation on the titular night. Many of his attempts were thwarted by the Headless Horseman who was help saving the Tassel Family, but he succeeded in killing many Van Tassel’s over the centuries, including having no qualms killing Van Tassel children. It’s also shown that every Halloween he ingests the spirits from the hole in order to strengthen his powers considerably, even using animals powers, such as when callously snapping a birds neck to take its soul.
Tenebrous attempts to murder Vicky for years when she was a child, the plot always foiled by Headless Horseman. Mort attempts to kill her in the modern day, hiding in a corporeal form under the guise of a school teacher as he builds up his powers. He even attempts a murderer on her life as he almost causes her father to almost run over her.
During the annual night, Izzy, Vicky, their friend Croc and The Headless Horseman get a plot to steal and throw what they believe is the source of his magic to throw into the pit of where he came from originally, the hole to the Spirit Realm. Tenebrous attempts to kill Izzy when he they make it to the pit, only for the artifact to not actually been the source of his power. He then engages in fight the horseman before getting Izzy on the ground and threatens to murder her in front of Vicky, attempting to get Vicky to offers herself as a sacrifice. However, Izzy gets the ghosts to strengthen her spirit and make her gain powers, gaining the upper hand and with Izzy’s help, knocks Tenebrous into the spirit pit, sending him back from where he came as his physical body gets destroyed and them many souls he ingested become free and fly around in escape, ending the curse of the Van Tassel Family.
Mitigating Factors
Lol, nah. This guy is about as interesting and as complex as a wet paper bag, but the guy has a personality at least, being a sadistic and petty spirit who wishes to cause suffering to the Tassel Family all for simply rebuking him centuries ago, and he’s barely even Faux Affably Evil while as a teacher. Nothing confirms any moral agency issues and while he is subjected to a bit of comedy when the group attempts to get the artifact from him, he is taken 100% seriously and is never made to be a joke.
Heinous Standard?
I think he clears as well, murdered many Van Tassel Family members for years, making them out to be accidents. From a scene in a graphic novel and other information we have confirmation of over 8 members getting killed, including a young child dying drowning. So I think he cuts it.
Verdict?
Yes.
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Jul 27th 2023 at 3:59:18 PM
Tenebrous
I'd go ask on Ask The Tropers about moving the page to it's correct spot.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."- #MurderTrending by Gretchen McNeil:
- The Postman is a bloodthirsty sadist and the ultimate source of all of the bloodshed in the series. Born Lincoln Browne, Lincoln murdered hos own parents and framed it as suicides to inherit their wealth after they threatened to cut him off. He then manipulated his sister into killing the people who were supposedly responsible for their parent's deaths and to fake his own death. Taking the name Abe Bronson he became a successful businessman while periodically murdering people for fun over the years, before convincing the President to set up "Alcatraz 2.0" an island where convicted murderers are hunted by state-sanctioned killers known as "Painiacs" while he makes money off of streaming the deaths. Later the Postman started using his connections to get young, attractive people framed for murders they didn't commit to get them sent to Alcatraz 2.0 to boost ratings. The Postman himself is also a Painiac himself, known as Prince Slycer he would dress women up as fairy tale princesses before butchering them.
- Kimber "Kimmi" Bronson is the Postman's daughter and is just as psychopathic as he is. At the age of 13 Kimmi decided to make Dee Guerra her sister by kidnapping her and torturing her into accepting her as her sister before she escaped and got Kimmi sent to a mental hospital. After being released years later, Kimmi tracked down Dee and tortured and murdered her step-sister Monica to get Dee sent to Alcatraz 2.0, where Kimmi murdered the reclusive inmate Mara to steal her identity so she could be sisters together. After Dee ruins the plan by killing her father as Prince Slycer, Kimmi decides to take his identity as the Postman and begins to systematically killing anyone who might be able to notice the difference, gassing almost all of the prisoners and all of the guards on the island to death while arranging for Dee to kill the Painiacs so they can be replaced. When Dee finally learns the truth and rejects Kimmi's offer of "sisterhood", Kimmi tries to kill Dee and her friends.
Honestly I gotta admit. When it comes to candidates from Tone in songs, more specifically Fan Songs. Got a candidate from a song that is upbeat as it is set as a commercial, but the lyrics and and actions in the song are pretty violent and dark. I could attribute it to Lyrical Dissonance and the fact it highlights its creepiness
Is it a case by case thing when it comes to tone in songs?
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Jul 27th 2023 at 4:29:26 AM
Yes to Tenebrous.
I ignore the hashtag when alphabetizing, right? So I just file under M?
As for the red link, for now I'm just doing:
- ''[[Literature/MurderTrending #MurderTrending]]'' trilogy, by Gretchen [=McNeil=]
- #MurderTrending trilogy, by Gretchen McNeil
Oh yeah, it's the 27th, time to discuss Gravity Circuit
No one counts, the Robot master equivalents the Rebel circuits were all brainwashed by the true master the Commander Circuit and while he is certainly a prick with a side of Evil Cannot Comprehend Good his final words before dying are about how since his body is built into the spaceship they used the only thing he really had for joy in his was gazing upon the stars while in space before begging for his unseen Master's forgiveness, and this is followed by his one remaining old friend coming up and pitying him. Too much emphasis is placed on this for me to say that's it's just him being selfish and it's clearly meant to be an Alas, Poor Villain moment
"We'll meet again" | 🏳️⚧️

Ngl that sounds very whiny and self Serving in a "why Did you make me hit you?" Way. Wouldn't call that mitigating on its own.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."