Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest
for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM
Here's a pretty decent quote for Dark Mysterio, too, if we wanna give thoughts on it:
Edited by Ravok on Jul 27th 2023 at 12:17:17 PM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Also, Comic!Crossbones seems to care about Sin.
Oh, I remember that. We changed it to the one about High Evolutionary.
Edited by ACW on Jul 27th 2023 at 7:05:25 AM
Write up of Jonathan and Robotnik
- Despair Island: Jonathan Gavrilovic is a controversial Canadian Politician who has ties to the Serbian Mafia, as well as the producer for Total Drama. After lying to Chris about the legality of the show in order to later set him up as a scapegoat, he gives Chris the island and all the equipment and people for the show, including Zolkoff, while he organizes the mass kidnapping of 22 teenagers while disguised as Canadian Government, and sends them to the island to compete for their lives, while having Chris make an electric gallery of their corpses to serve as an incentive. Keeping himself distant with the show to prevent anyone from knowing his true intentions, he later throws everyone under the bus and gets them arrested, resulting in Chris’ death by Zolkoff to silence him and relocates Chef to prevent the government from making him talk. A mastermind who was willing to have 19 children lose their lives to line is pockets, he manages to force the Canadian Government to not investigate any further, leading Gavrilovic to receive no comeuppance, able to sell Total Drama to the Black Market for money while staying a respected member of the Canadian Government.
- There's Something About: Baron Robotnik is Sonic’s mortal enemy who wishes to destroy Sonic’s village and all his friends. Seeking the power of the Chaos Emerald, he embraced the power of the emerald and turned himself into the monstrous Titan, in which attacks the village for years, causing massive casualties. Manipulating Sonic’s good will, he tricks Sonic into transferring the emerald’s powers into him, ending his own death but spitefully having Sonic continue his mission, as the crystals transforms Sonic into the monstrous Titan, trapping Sonic inside with no way out as he is forced to attack the city and his friends.
Red Skull, ADAM, Zola, and Brock.
Alright, the 27th of July is here, so let's discuss Sonic Prime. No new keepers here, but there is one potential keeper that could count in the next season. For this discussion I will be bringing up why this one certain villain could keep why the other villains in the show don't.
To start things off, let's talk about the show's main villains: the Chaos Council, who are 5 different versions of Dr. Eggman who rule over New Yoke City with a iron fist, being responsible for slavery, turning people into robots (As heavily implied with Rusty Rose), and killing anyone who does not fall in line with their rule, as shown by their repeated attempts to destroy the resistance. The five Eggmans in question are, Mr. Dr. Eggman: Who can pretty much be considered the leader of the group as well as the most competent. Dr. Deep: A blue haired individual who uses a battle suit with katanas, and practices yoga. Dr. Done It: A elderly scientist with severe back pains and fights with an energy shooting cane. Dr. Don't: A teenage scientist who is pretty much apathetic to everything, spends more time playing games, and can take control of other mechs to fight his foes with. And finally, Dr. Babble: A literal toddler who is prone to throwing temper tantrums when things don't go his way or if his creations get broken. As you can probably, 4 of these scientists are unlikely to keep due to their humorous qualities, but of the 5, Mr. Dr. Eggman is the most likely qualifier, having no genuine redeeming quality, especially he is more serious and competent than his partners, all of the council members pretty much HATE each other, and why he did say that cutting out the prism energy from Sonic was a little excessive, Dr. Babble is able to convince to go through with it, and has shown no further objects to it since then, so I can't he has genuine morals, and despite what his character page might say, he doesn't shown any sadness towards Chaos Sonic's death. What makes me consider him a potential keep is that he, and the rest of council, plan to conquer the shatterverse with the Paradox Prism shards, opening several portals to help expand their empire. Now simple ruling wouldn't be heinous enough, but here's the catch, as Nine states, leaving those portals open is a VERY bad idea, as this threatens to destroy all of reality itself. Even when Nine's concerns are proved to be valid with massive earthquakes, only Dr. Done It shows concern, with Mr. Dr. Eggman's response being "Whatever it is, we can fix it later. No sense stopping now." Basically showing no concern or care about what happens to the shatterverse in the hopes of trying to control, even if his methods destroy it. Of course, the show likely has one season left, and the Chaos Council are still at large by the end of the season so I'll hold off from E Ping Mr. Dr. Eggman for now, but I say he has potential.
As for the other villains, we got Rusty Rose, a mechaizied version of Amy Rose, who is a willing servant to the Chaos Council… At least until they double crossed her after she fails them one too many times, causing her to perform a Heel–Face Turn, forming a genuine bond with Black Rose, a pirate version of Amy Rose. We also got Thorn Rose, she isn't really evil, but she goes through some EXTREME measures to protect the jungle… Until she realizes that those same methods cause as much damage to the jungle as the scavengers do, leading to her own Heel–Face Turn. Then we got Dread Knuckles, a pirate captain version of Knuckles ego starts off as affable and party loving, but as soon as he gets his hands on one of the prism shards he becomes obsessive, treacherous, and manipulative, going as far to betraying Sonic by lying to his crew that the hedgehog abandoned them, as well as betraying his own crew later on, leaving them to die. And then we have Chaos Sonic, a Metal Sonic knockoff created by the Chaos Council after Nine unintentionally gave them the idea. Chaos Sonic is basically an more arrogant version of Sonic who believes that friendship is weak, and plans on killing Sonic's friends just to spite him. Of course, none of these other villains count either due to not being heinous enough, or having redeeming qualities.
And last but not least, we got one more villain who most certainly doesn't keep, but I believe deserves his own paragraph for story reasons. The character in question is Nine, an alternate version of Sonic's best friend, Tails. In Nine's universe, there was no one there to prevent him from being bullied about his two tails, leading him to becoming bitter and cynical, creating 7 extra robotic tails to protect himself, and isolating himself from the world, caring very little about it's fate. Upon meeting Sonic, he learns about the shards, as well as the Shatterverse, and uses the one shard that the council had to travel to the Shatterverse itself, willing leaving everyone in New Yoke City to die. Arriving at a seemingly vacant universe called, the Grim, he plans to start a new life start, planning to bring Sonic along with, being the first genuine friend he has. Nine is able to be convinced to help out the resistance, if only because Sonic wants that, but he is soon captured by the Chaos Council, who force to create the Shatterdrive, which is used to travel to the other universes. Nine, however, secretly helps Sonic on his mission to stop the Chaos Council and acquire the shards. Despite some setbacks, Sonic and Nine are able to acquire the shards and bring them back to Sonic's universe, which has decaying due to the prism's shattering, and Sonic's friends there are basically near non existent minus phantom repeating certain lines over and over again. Sonic and Shadow, who Sonic formed an alliance with, hope to restore their world by putting the Paradox Prism back together. With the help of Nine, they were able to put the shards back together to reform the prism….. Except for one last shard, which is in the Grim. Unfortunately, this is where it's revealed that Nine had ZERO intention of restoring Sonic's world, using the Prism location as a blueprint to build it in the Grim to make a new world for himself, abandoning Sonic's world to its And I Must Scream fate. Sonic tries to reason with him, but Nine's Lack of Empathy for others, his traumatic past, and Sonic's unintentionally implying that sees Nine as a extension of Tails and not his own person end up causing Nine to betray Sonic, before stealing the shards and heads to the Grim, declaring that he can only trust himself. While there's no denying that Nine is a selfish sociopathic individual, who is willing to leave people to die just so he can get what he wants, his past is genuinely traumatic enough to migrating, he WAS severely against the council risking the fate of reality itself just to expand their empire, and he did genuinely cared about Sonic before betraying him, and was legitimately saddened to accidentally give the council the idea of creating Chaos Sonic in the hopes of killing Sonic. As selfish as he is, Nine is pretty damn far from a CM.
And that pretty much wraps up the discussion. Out of all these characters, the only one I can see being CM by the end of the show is Mr. Dr. Eggman, but only time will tell if he ends being a keep. For now, I'll be keeping a very close eye on him. Also, I recommend Sonic Prime, it's honestly a pretty great show.
Okay, for that possible mitigating quality
for Asmodeus, I found the transcript
:
Yeah having seen Sonic Prime too, Mr. Dr. Eggman seems to be the only one that has any potential to count as a CM (really only Dr Babble seems upset that Chaos Sonic gets destroyed)
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff

for Zola, Rey Mysterio, and Brock.
There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.