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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Old Complete Monster cleanup thread

Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#21426: Jul 26th 2023 at 1:52:50 PM

[up][up][up] Here it is.

I don't know... The story is way too short for me to feel comfortable upvoting the evil god. It's not even a proper narrative, just "deity destroys universes and laughs about it, the end".

TheGrayFox ....Phenomenal from A Lovecraftian fishing village Since: Sep, 2011
....Phenomenal
#21427: Jul 26th 2023 at 1:54:16 PM

[tup] for Red Skull.

Abstaining on the evil god though.

There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#21428: Jul 26th 2023 at 1:54:33 PM

Yeah. [tdown]God.

That is just three paragraphs of information. That doesn't sound like a narrative or onstage villany if it's just some (short paragraphs) of boasting.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MermaidEyes15 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
FlowerPicking Since: Feb, 2023 Relationship Status: A heart full of love
#21430: Jul 26th 2023 at 1:55:36 PM

Oh, if it is really short I am switching to[tdown]

Edited by FlowerPicking on Jul 26th 2023 at 4:55:47 AM

YorkobeShounen Since: Dec, 2022
#21431: Jul 26th 2023 at 1:56:26 PM

[tdown]For evil god as there is not a clear narrative present

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#21432: Jul 26th 2023 at 2:03:33 PM

[tup] to Adam, Red Skull

No to God and switch abstain on Trickster

What is the work?

Taur the Migthy is 1963 Italian mucleman movie. Thor is strong man whose adopted son Syros got angaged to the daugther of king of Surupak. However when kingdom is attacked by warlike Kixos and its people taken to slavery, it is put to thor and his sedikeck Ubaratutu to save them.

I already proposed the Black Queen from sequel and this movie has evil queen in a Queen Akiba. However my candidate is High Priest El Khad.

Who is El Khad? What has he done?

High Priest of Kixos who 18 years before ordered their deceased king’s newborn son killed while using baby Akiba as false queen. With his magic he brainwashed her to me nothing more than his puppet, using her to have Kixos enslave people across the land in their mines leading to deaths of many. He also has strongest men figth one on one with Victory’s cooked alive so Kixos could earth them and absorb their streng, while woman are trained as gladiators for amusement of Kixos.

However young prince’s nurse coudn’t bring herself to kill him and lies he was eaten by Lion. Angry that he coudn’t confirm prince’s death, El Khad had her chained to walls of the cave, 18 years giving just necesary amount of food and water to survive. When Kixos invade Surupak and enslave survivors, he learns that Syros is prince, killing guard who brought him a message.

Not believing it El Khad proceds with new round battles where Victor is eaten. Thor throws a fight and when he is thrown on cart with bodies of losers, takes charge and frees Ubaratutu and other victors. Akiba falls in love with him and takes him to her bedchambers, after El Khad unsucefuly tries to have him killed by being pulled apart by horses. El Khad cursed her so man who she kisses will die. It fails, but Akiba declates hunt for thor, in meanhvile El Khad learns that lost heir of Kixos really is alive thanks to his ambitious right hand.

Killing her after she gives him a name. He takes men captured in raid on Surupak who are right age and plans to kill them all while Syros’s fiance Jia and her sister battle to death (he had nothing to do with it as a note). Thor causes slave rebelion and eruption of volcano beneath the mines and thougth he tries to escape after unsucefuly trying to kill Syros (acidentaly killing freed maid), but thor uses his super strength to thrown gian rock on him and bridge where he is.

Reddeming Factors?

he sees Akiba purely as a means of power and is stereotipical evil priest.

Heinouss standard?

Like Black queen he has deadly slavery and battles to death, plus cooking people alive, triying to kill a baby and turning another into his puppet ruler, torturing woman for 18 years.

Pass

Conclusion?

Yes

Edited by EmperorGeode on Jul 26th 2023 at 2:12:05 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#21433: Jul 26th 2023 at 2:05:32 PM

[tup]khad.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
FlowerPicking Since: Feb, 2023 Relationship Status: A heart full of love
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#21439: Jul 26th 2023 at 2:46:20 PM

Sure to Khad. What's the sequel called?

TheGrayFox ....Phenomenal from A Lovecraftian fishing village Since: Sep, 2011
....Phenomenal
#21440: Jul 26th 2023 at 2:48:05 PM

[tup] for Khad.

There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#21441: Jul 26th 2023 at 2:48:52 PM

[up][up] English title is Thor and the Amazon Women.

Edited by EmperorGeode on Jul 26th 2023 at 2:49:30 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#21442: Jul 26th 2023 at 2:53:07 PM

Pending stuff:

Edited by ACW on Jul 26th 2023 at 5:53:16 AM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#21443: Jul 26th 2023 at 3:26:08 PM

And now to follow up Red Skull, we're in the home stretch of these novelizations - Captain America: The Winter Soldier!

Who is Arnim Zola? What does he do?

Just like in the original movie, Zola was once a member of Schmidt's inner circle, but he was captured before Red Skull's defeat. As part of Operation: Paperclip, he was recruited by American scientists, but Zola took advantage of this by reforming HYDRA within SHIELD, turning what should have been an international peacekeeping operation into a front for vicious fascism. Having learned from Schmidt that people didn't want to have their freedoms taken away even if it was in their "best interest", his response was to ensure that people would willingly hand over their freedoms, so he spent decades engineering wars and large-scale disasters and threats so that he could take their freedoms easily. Along the way, he tortured Bucky Barnes until he became the Winter Soldier, and even his own death couldn't stop him when he created an AI copy of himself.

His crown jewel that would ensure HYDRA's domination of the world is Project Insight, using the helicarriers SHIELD is building and an algorithm Zola designed to detect threats to his rule before they become threats to eliminate millions of threats to HYDRA's rule all at the same time. With Alexander Pierce as Zola's right hand and Nick Fury unknowing of the threat, all is set for Zola to execute his plan to kill millions in exchange for total power.

Of course, then the film happens, and Captain America and Black Widow are set on his trail. Eventually, they end up at Camp Lehigh, where Zola's computer body is stored. At this point, Zola reveals everything that I mentioned above, before revealing that his massive exposition dump was actually a distraction so that SHIELD/HYDRA could bomb the camp and kill them. Luckily for the world, the plan doesn't work, Cap and Widow survive, Insight is eventually stopped, and Zola, unlike in the film where it's left ambiguous, is explicitly wiped out for good.

Any mitigating factors? Freudian Excuse?

Even less than in the original franchise - though he lacks the comic that officially certified that he had no good intentions, the book never raises them in the first place, couching all of Zola's exposition in self-serving rhetoric that never implies any genuine sense of care for freedom or humanity itself. It's all so that HYDRA can rule the world no matter how many people have to die for that to happen.

Is he heinous enough?

He spends decades corrupting SHIELD from within by manipulating the world by creating threats large enough to make people sacrifice their freedom willingly, he creates the Winter Soldier through the horrific torture we saw onscreen, and Project Insight is stated to threaten the lives of several million innocent people just like in the movie. As before, though he lacks his comic crimes, he's still more than good given the overall lower standard of the novels.

Final verdict?

And another yep for Zola.

Now I know there are several questions that will probably be asked at this point so let me head them off now:

  • Are the books connected? - No, they are not
  • Are any of Zola's crimes from his previous appearance mentioned in this novel? - No, they are not
  • Does Zola do anything in the first novel that warrants any mention or entry? - No, he does not

Basically, we're going entirely off of Winter Soldier for Zola, as well as for my next potential coming up, so I hope that heads off any questions about how we're handling this.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#21445: Jul 26th 2023 at 3:28:30 PM

[tup]zola.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#21446: Jul 26th 2023 at 3:30:00 PM

[tup] Zola, the mention of another guy who's just from Winter soldier I'm assuming Pierce gets some Adaptational Villainy

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#21448: Jul 26th 2023 at 3:30:44 PM

Yes to Zola

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#21450: Jul 26th 2023 at 3:31:36 PM

Yes to Zola.

Though how can we say the books aren't connected, given they're all the same author?


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