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Complete Monster Proposal Thread

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Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Don't delete an EP unless you intend to swiftly repost it. We know that there are reasons why you might want to delete an EP, especially if it's being downvoted - rejection is hard, even in a low-stakes environment like this. However, deleting it renders the current discussion null and void, makes it impossible to reference the discussion in the future and can confuse tropers who didn't read it before the deletion. If the issue is temporary (such as formatting problems or a post getting overlooked as the thread moves on), then deleting and quickly reposting the EP is a valid option, but to fully retract an EP, please use the [[strike:]] markup instead.

  4. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  5. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  6. 'If a work is already reserved by another user , please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  7. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  8. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  9. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  10. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.


IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 12th 2024 at 3:13:36 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#19576: Jul 9th 2023 at 11:27:01 AM

I could get rid of Mad Scientist? So:

  • Van Kleiss is the ruthless dictator of Abysus, and the Arch-Enemy of Rex Salazar. Once a researcher who worked on the original nanite project with Rex's parents, Van Kleiss betrayed them and left them to die when the project went critical. After the nanite event, Van Kleiss resurfaces as a powerful EVO with the ability to drain the nanites of others and turn them into statues. Van Kleiss has his minions threaten Peter Meechum's young daughter in order to have her father start a Zombie Apocalypse across New York to create an army of minions for him to use. Van Kleiss later drains Rex of his powers to gain the ability to turn others into monstrous EVOs which he uses to target Rex's best friend. Van Kleiss also cares nothing for his subordinates and will sacrifice them if need be, or in the case of Breach painfully experiment on her to increase her abilities. Though he claims that he wishes to help create a better world for EVOs, Van Kleiss only truly cares for himself and his goal to become a god.

Magnus616 Since: Dec, 2021
#19577: Jul 9th 2023 at 12:06:22 PM

From the My Hero Academia Fanfic, One for All and Eight for the Ninth: Chitose Kisuki, also known by the villain alias, Curious.

Some of the character story: Curious is an Immoral Journalist and a proud member of the Meta Liberation Army, a Super Supremacist villain group that seeks that believes Might Makes Right, and seeks to erradicate the last remaining Quirkless people left on the world, as well as people with weak Quirks. Kizuki is the head of Shoonyasha Publications, a media company that publicizes the biography of MLA founder, Chikara Yotsubashi, also known as Destro. She also uses her position as reporter to slander anyone that seemingly represents a threat to the MLA cause, from malicious articles to online hate campaigns against the protagonist, Izuku Midoriya. Curious' Quirk, Ladmine, allows her turn anything and anyone into a bomb that can be detonated whenever she wishes so. One of her biggest displays of Evil Is Petty, she sets several buildings surrounding the U.A. school to explode, just because the school is housing Midoriya and his loved ones. In what is arguably her most hienous act in the story, Curious sets numerous MLA footsoldiers, most of them heteromorphs that only serve Cannon Fodder, as suicide bombers without their knowledge or consent and sends them into suicide attacks to kickstart the MLA Uprising, causing the deaths of not only thousands of civillians, but also of loyal MLA soldiers all over Japan. A sociopathic, petty, arrogant and Smug Snake with no redeeming qualities whatsoever, Curious stands out as the vilest and cruelest villain of an already nasty organization.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#19578: Jul 9th 2023 at 12:18:50 PM

Yes to Sivanna

Here's Graves.

  • Gustav Graves here lacks the redeeming qualities of his original version and is turned into a sociopathic businessman with a god complex. When Bond and his ally Jinx investigate him, Graves captures both of them, torturing Bond with electricity and trying to force him to watch as Jinx is cut in half with a laser. Graves reveals that he plans to use his laser satellite Icarus to destroy the Demilitarized Zone between North and South Korea so the North can conquer the South. When Bond and Jinx escape, Graves recklessly fires Icarus at him, endangering his own men and killing his second in command. When Bond confronts him again, Graves tries to electrocute him to death.

Edited by papyru30 on Jul 9th 2023 at 1:46:52 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#19579: Jul 9th 2023 at 1:38:22 PM

Okay, my candidate from The Long Shalom: Carlo Bianchi (mentioned in Cromwell's EP)

Who is he and what has he done?

  • Mobster and former co-worker of Alan's. When they were both mobsters, a kid saw the dead bodies, and unlike Carlo, Alan wasn't willing to kill the kid. Alan left the mob, fortunate that his boss didn't kill him.
  • He, along with Cromwell, is one of the chief associates of Hadrian. He helps obtain people to sacrifice to Hadrian, and in return has the golems: their "own private little police force, and...keep the herd culled. No population gets too big."
  • Cromwell may be the brains, but Carlo is just as important.
  • Carlo eventually gets killed by Alan's old friends in the Jewish mob.

Heinousness?

  • He's the chief muscle doing the dirty work for Hadrian's sacrifices, and is a bigot to boot.

Disqualifiers?

  • Nah, not really. He tells Alan to "speak of Mr. Masseria (Carlo's current boss) with some respect", FWIW, but doesn't seem disqualifying to me.

Final Verdict?

Yes. Hadrian's an Ancient Evil; Cromwell's a Corrupt Politician; I need a pothole for Carlo.

Ignore for now.

Edited by ACW on Jul 9th 2023 at 5:03:56 AM

EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
#19580: Jul 9th 2023 at 1:43:22 PM

It seems like he counts, but [down] has a point that it is somehow too barebones.

@ Magnus 616, how bad are other villains in the fic? She sounds promising but I would like more information about Heinous standard.

Edited by EmperorGeode on Jul 9th 2023 at 1:54:38 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#19581: Jul 9th 2023 at 1:43:46 PM

I'm going to be honest, that's quite abridged ACW. I'd rather vote on it being more detailed.

Edited by 43110 on Jul 9th 2023 at 4:44:13 AM

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#19582: Jul 9th 2023 at 1:44:48 PM

Yeah, honestly that's a little too sparse for me especially since the other guys from Long shalom are so nasty

"We'll meet again" | 🏳️‍⚧️
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#19583: Jul 9th 2023 at 1:49:09 PM

Going forward, I think as a point of respect to tropers who are putting a lot of work into their novels, if we're going to effort post for them, I rather strongly feel it's not the time to be spartan on detail either. Even if the EP itself isn't mandatory anymore, it doesn't feel right to give a very brief post on the work of someone we actually know and frequents the thread and I sincerely feel a more personal work like this deserves full paragraphs if another troper is going to reserve it so they guarantee a claim to it. It feels like it should be a full measure.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#19584: Jul 9th 2023 at 1:56:56 PM

Abstaining on Carlo until he gets a more detailed EP. Echoing the above posts: from the summary all I can gather from Carlo is that he's an accessory to the other qualifiers. What's the elaborated argument for him being distinct? Why isn't that thing you mentioned under "Redeeming Qualities" not actually redeeming? The post is too sparse to effectively answer any of these questions.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#19585: Jul 9th 2023 at 1:57:35 PM

That's fair. I'll put more detail hopefully tomorrow. At the very least early enough that the writeup can go with the others.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#19586: Jul 9th 2023 at 1:59:47 PM

My advice is going to be "Pretend like the other villains don't have posts of their own we can just reference." It'll work far better if you make this one stand alone and flesh out the details... how does his work in the sacrifices function? What does being 'the muscle' entail here? If he's a vile racist are there any examples of hate crimes worth mentioning? You can honestly have a lot of fun getting into it.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#19587: Jul 9th 2023 at 2:01:55 PM

Cool. Just gimme a day or two or so.

And [up]is good advice.

Edited by ACW on Jul 9th 2023 at 5:02:09 AM

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#19588: Jul 9th 2023 at 2:07:56 PM

[tup] Emicho Hadrian and Cromwell—Congrats, Lighty!—and Sivana.

What is the work? Gemini Home Entertainment is one of most famous Analog Horror series ever created, and quite possibly my favorite of the bunch. The series is a Cosmic Horror Story dealing with alien creatures infiltrating Earth and humanity monitoring the Alien Invasion via the titular video company. While the creatures themselves are certainly intelligent, they're simply predators looking for prey—however, the same cannot be said for the Monster Progenitor.

What is it? The Iris is an alien planet that has entered our Solar System and is heading towards Earth... Except it's not really a planet, the Iris is a gargantuan eye-shaped living organism containing mammalian organs and a "conscious mind", and unfortunately for us, the Iris possesses the mindset of a Psychopathic Manchild, spending its time "LAUGHING AT US" and referring to itself as a "Hungry Eye". The Iris operates by hunting for planets across the galaxy and forcibly mutating them to its liking, eliminating all native life in the process. As detailed in the series itself and the tie-in game Lethal Omen, the Iris enjoys gloating about humanity's impending doom and haunting the dreams of humans. Setting its eye on Earth as its next target, the Iris influences the creation of a number of abominations that are active across all of North America—most notably the Woodcrawlers, "skinwalker" arachnids that really like to kill people and inhabit their bodies, children included. Another one of its creations is the Deep Root Disease, a horrific condition that painfully turns people into organic trees over the course of many days.

The Iris' masterpiece is the Wretch, a massive creature made from a bear—the Wretch was created after an unwilling servant of the Iris, the administrator of Moonlight Acres Family Camp, refused to continue performing human sacrifices to it and decided to appease the Iris by offering the life of a bear instead, things went terribly wrong and the bear was perverted into an Animalistic Abomination that assimilates human beings into itself, leaving them in a state of And I Must Scream. The Iris takes a special interest in Moonlight Acres, its minions having killed the original staff and used the camp as one of their early feeding grounds—When Moonlight Acres hosted a Christmas Eve party to celebrate the re-opening of the camp, the Wretch showed up and massacred the attendees.

Mitigating Factors? The Iris is basically Hellstar Remina but given the personality of a sadistic kid, it literally gives itself a super-villain moniker and mocks the demise of its victims just to Kick the Dog.

"THE HARBINGERS GUARD IN VAIN. THE HUNGRY EYE IS WELCOMED. JACK IS WITH US NOW. JACK IS US NOW."

Heinous? It's the Big Bad of the entire series, the Iris is behind decades of atrocities and wants to cause The End of the World as We Know It, this thing passes with flying colors.

Conclusion? [tup]

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#19589: Jul 9th 2023 at 2:09:21 PM

[tup] The Iris

Abstaining on Carlo until a better proposal is posted

It's Spooky Month!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#19590: Jul 9th 2023 at 2:11:05 PM

Yes to the laughing, evil planet

TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#19591: Jul 9th 2023 at 2:12:13 PM

I edited the Chaos Kin’s folder on the character sheet to change Generic Doomsday Villain to Flat Character.

Once Upon A Time.
EmperorGeode from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#19593: Jul 9th 2023 at 2:17:21 PM

BTW, Lethal Omen will probably be mentioned in the writeup, but I assume the entry will go to web video?

Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#19597: Jul 9th 2023 at 2:26:41 PM

I'm leaning to a yes on the Iris, but I'm more inclined to abstain because the series isn't over yet and there's still a lot about the Iris that's unknown. Where did it come from? What does it want, aside from just dicking with humanity? WTF is it doing with Neptune?

I say I'm leaning to a yes regardless because we do have visual evidence the Iris is a sadist, but the creator has stated on his Discord that the series finale is like two videos away, so I'm wondering if it would be wiser to put this on the back burner until the series wraps up and we know everything (the infrequent upload schedule not withstanding).

Edited by Scraggle on Jul 9th 2023 at 3:27:30 AM

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#19598: Jul 9th 2023 at 2:51:21 PM

[up] I could wait for the series finale and then write the entry, wouldn't be a problem tbh. We did upvote Alternate Gabriel back when Mandela Catalogue was still in its infancy but I do recognize that Satan and an alien planet are two different things—Speaking of which, I really need to update Satan's entry.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#19599: Jul 9th 2023 at 2:57:34 PM

I think I'd be more comfortable with that. I think it's your decision because sometimes months goes by between episodes, but the fact we do have the finale on the near horizon (plus we did get a new episode recently) makes me think waiting until we're iron-clad sure the Iris fits. Everything is trending towards it qualifying, but the idea it's sadistic is the only separation from it being as mysterious as Remina otherwise, IMHO. That's a consequence of the very minimalist style of GHE's storytelling.

Edited by Scraggle on Jul 9th 2023 at 3:57:47 AM

DrakeClawfang Since: Apr, 2010
#19600: Jul 9th 2023 at 3:21:25 PM

With miraculous' knowledge, another EP from FF 16. This will contain HEAVY spoilers for the game, you've been warned.

What is the work?

The work is Final Fantasy XVI.

The major takeaway from the lore to follow this EP is that in this world, Valisthea, the recurring summoned monsters of the series are called Eikons, and manifest through humans referred to as Dominants. While most Dominants command respect and power, there are also humans called Bearers who possess the ability to use natural magic, and they are branded on the cheek and enslaved to be exploited for their powers.

Who is the character?

The character in Anabella Rosfield.

What do they do?

Anabella was the cousin and wife of Elwin Rosfield, archduke of the Grand Duchy of Rosaria. The Rosfield bloodline was known for often giving birth to Dominants of the Eikon Phoenix, so it was expected their firstborn son, Clive, would be chosen as Phoenix's Dominant. However, he was not, and his younger brother Joshua was chosen instead. Anabella hated Clive due to being passed up by the Phoenix, while Joshua was sickly and she tried to keep him indoors for his health. Eventually Anabella secretly made a deal wit Sylvestre, the Emperor of the neighboring Empire of Sanbreque. While her family was away, a small force of Imperials snuck into their fortress and killed Elwin. A traumatized Joshua lost control of his powers and transformed into Phoenix, and was attacked by a second Eikon of Fire, an unprecedented occurrence. When the flames receded, Clive was apparently the only survivor.

The Empire's official account of the incident was that the Phoenix had run amok and killed everyone, and to maintain the pretense Anabella was briefly taken into the custody of the crown for "protection" - she soon married Emperor Sylvestre. Anabella had Clive branded as a Bearer and he was pressed into the imperial military as a slave. The former territory of Rosaria became a province of the Empire with Anabella ruling it as vicereine. One of her first acts was to found the Black Shields, an order of knights sworn to her service. The Black Shields became her enforcers, and not only ruthlessly persecuted Bearers but also loyalists to Elwin's former duchy. She instituted heavy taxation and surveillance of the residents of Rosaria, and the Black Shields slaughtered anyone she believed defied her or posed a threat to her.

With Emperor Sylvestre, Anabella birthed a third son, Olivier, and began scheming to make him Emperor over Sylvestre's first-born and much older son, Dion, the Dominant of Bahamut. She warned Sylvestre that Dion could not be trusted and would betray him, a suspicion that was shared by Sylvestre's astrologers (they consult the stars for guidance) and in his mind confirmed when Dion began to have doubts about his father's orders - in truth Anabella had convinced the astrologers to echo her suspicions, and Dion's doubts were in large part because Sylvestre had become a more oppressive and aggressive ruler under Anabella's influence, seeking war with other territories and ignoring the plights of the Empire's citizens. Over time Sylvestre was convinced that Olivier was the incarnation of the goddess of the Empire's state-religion, and he ceded his throne to him while he would act as advisor.

Dion attempted a coup and tried to make it as bloodless as possible. Before his father and court he denounced Olivier as a puppet king controlled by Anabella, who had poisoned Sylvestre's mind and made him into a tyrant. While the court and even the guards sided with Dion, Olivier goaded him to try and attack him, and when Dion threw his spear at him, Sylvestre intercepted him. Olivier mocked Dion as a kinslayer and drove him mad, causing him to lose control and transform into Bahamut. In the ensuing chaos, Anabella took shelter with Olivier. Eventually Clive and Joshua - who had actually survived the attack years ago - defeated Bahamut and Dion reverted to human. He looked at Anabella and Olivier and saw Olivier's true nature as a guise of Ultima, the game's Big Bad (long story, won't get into it). Dion killed Olivier/Ultima and he dispelled into aether as Anabella watched.

With the area collapsing Joshua tried to convince his mother to escape with them, but she had finally snapped. She drew a dagger and slashed at Joshua, screaming that he was a shadow and to stay away from her, and she slit her own throat.

Are they bad enough?

Everything Anabella does is born out of intense elitism, to the point it borders on Fantastic Racism towards the lower-classes. A major motivation for her betrayal of Rosaria is the mockery she felt she endured from Rosaria's citizens, rumors that her first-born son might be illegitimate because he was not chosen by the Phoenix, and that her second son was sickly and frail and not long for this world. She also detested Elwin and his love for his homeland and its people, because in her mind the first duty of a ruler ought to be to ensure the continuation of their noble bloodline, nations and their citizens come and go and can be replaced. She proudly declares as part of a Motive Rant that this is why she married Sylvestre and fathered Olivier, to bear a child of the bloodlines of both Phoenix and Bahamut. Earlier she also rubs her machinations in Dion's face and reveals that a secondary motivation for making Olivier Emperor is that Dion's mother was a commoner, and thus he doesn't deserve to rule the Empire. She whispers to Olivier that her vision is for Sanbreque to conquer the world, and then once Sylvestre is gone, all of Valisthea shall kneel before Olivier as a God-Emperor.

According to the in-game lore, she "embraced her role as vicereine with sadistic relish, enacting a regime of crippling taxation and constant surveillance, along with renewed persecution of Bearers". Her enforcers, the Black Shields, were deliberately cultivated by her to spit on Elwin's legacy, as they're named after the Shields that were the sworn bodyguards of the archduke, and she deliberately taught them the same spoken oaths and physical poses the Shields had used. The Black Shields brutally persecuted Bearers and also those that would aid them in escaping their masters, and plunder, murder, and torture were their standard methods. Under Anabella's orders entire villages were slaughtered and burned for the "crime" of sheltering Bearers. She even secretly gave Hugo Kupka, the Dominant of Titan from the Dhalmekian Republic, permission to carry out a bloody invasion of the former Rosarian capital Rosalith, so that he might lure Clive to him and kill him.

Anabella's elitism extends even to her own family. She loathes Clive and considers him a failure and a shame upon the Rosfield bloodline, sentiments she openly shares with her husband. Her reasoning for this is that she was not chosen to be the Dominant of Phoenix, and thus he is a normal man like any other. When the Imperial soldiers find him after their attack on the Rosarians, Anabella casually orders them to kill him, but then changes her mind and orders Clive conscripted into the imperial army - as she does so, she notes that Elwin never failed to remind her that Clive was a good soldier, so even sparing Clive is just another way for her to spite Elwin in death.

Redeeming traits?

Anabella's sole redeeming trait is her love for Joshua and Olivier. However, one does not need to squint very hard to see that she only loves them if/when they live up to her ideas of noble bloodlines and their power. As mentioned, Clive was also her son and she hates him and both he and Elwin knew it, and she wants nothing to do with him. While she acts like she loves Joshua, her love is framed as her being a Control Freak, wanting to keep Joshua indoors and safe away from anything that could hurt him due to his illnesses.

When Clive confronts her years later and she's called out on selling out her country for a child, Clive says "you had Joshua", to which she replies "I had nothing!" and angrily rants how strong Clive was yet he wasn't chosen by the Phoenix. She then bemoans "would that Joshua had been granted a tenth of your strength!" and directly says that it should have been Clive that was chosen instead. She does note, though, that "the soldiers' orders were clear, [Joshua] was to be spared" the night the Empire attacked Rosaria and killed Elwin. While she visits the fortress the next morning and says "Joshua was my world, and now he is gone", her facial expression, physicality, and tone of voice, are not that of a grieving parent, but of someone annoyed that they've been inconvenienced.

Her love for Olivier is not explored in-depth, but she sets him up as a puppet ruler when he's young and has no idea how to rule and no interest in learning. We don't see anything to think she doesn't love Olivier, but on the other hand doesn't really act like she does, either. She refers to him as "her darling boy", but that's the exact same endearment she used for Joshua, too. She screams when Dion kills Olivier, but that's it.

Final verdict

Anabella is an elitist sociopath who betrays her family and kingdom to further her ambitions, violently oppresses those beneath her, and manipulates her emperor husband into becoming a war-mongering tyrant to conquer the world for their son.


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